Poly.. Difference Between Fail and Not Selected?

[BigHoss]

hoss, i dont think anyone was bickering. i replied to your post in a way that highlighted the fact that you mentioned the drug question was a different topic. now that you have cleared up what you were talking about, we all can discuss exactly what some of others have mentioned. the polygraph examiners are highly-trained, professional, skilled personnel(note: one L not two). if you have never used drugs, then the examiner was doing what he is trained to do. on my poly, he hammered me with national security issues because i had an active secret clearance. but, i knew i had never "sold" secrets to foreign nationals or anything else detrimental to national security so i passed. however, i still did not get hired by the secret service and to this day i do not know why. matter of fact, i made it through the process further as only a college graduate than a 10 year federal law enforcement officer & military veteran.

for what its worth, i have never met or heard of anyone that has been hired by the secret service after being rejected by them in the past. it seems like they are a "one and out" agency. hopefully, i am wrong in that belief.

also, you may be able to find out some information through the freedom of information act.

its cool, no one likes to be accused of lying, whether it be in person or on the internet. Thank you all for your help. Guess I will just have to see what happens.

[seeking]

Seeking, thanks for the new comment.
When I finished the poly I was questioned for an hour about something I was not telling him about my drug use. I tried to tell him the entire time that there was nothing I have ever done. I am not debating his opinion, if the machine told him I was lying I fully expect him to believe the machine over me. Heck, that is what they pay him for. I just cant imagine that I would fail the poly based on lying. If I was not selected for lack of qualifications or someone being better than I am, I am fine with that.

I have called the personnell department several times, and after searching posts on this site several people have had the same experience. they were not able or willing to tell me anything. I received a letter very similar to my original Not Selected letter, restating the fact that I was not selected. There was no mention about failing anything. So, I really want to reapply, I would be happy to take a hundred more polygraphs, and I will answer them all in the same way.

I come from a long family history of law enforcement and I am not stupid enough to lie about anything. I am planning on reapplying and harassing them until they either tell me never to come back or I get the job. thanks for the input

Hm, well, good on you that you weren't lying. From the post previous to mine it sounds like the grilling over something they don't believe is common. It's too bad they won't get back to you about what the problem was. You can try reapplying if you want, but I wouldn't 'harass' them (unless you mean in an enthusiastic I want the job way--getting an attitude prob wouldn't help your chances though), and if they don't respond to you, take the experience for what it's worth and apply to another agency. Best of luck

[JakeLock]

Hoss, fwiw I wasn't accusing you of lying. My apologies if it came across that way.

[jvale00]

Or just be honest in the first place, what a silly statement that was...

Nothing silly about that statement. Poly's are a crock. This will only be proven correct when Hoss gets hired on somewhere. Logic dictates if the Poly is sooo reliable and sooo accurate, then, if he failed one he would fail them all. After all, they have basically the same institutions certifying them and the poly training schools are set up similiarly. But, we know this to not be true as several people take a poly one place and fail - only to get hired at another dept after taking their poly. Many dept do not rate their polys as a "pass" or "fail" because of this. There is a ton of literature out there on polys, how they're designed to work etc. etc. I suppose you could read up on it but it won't help you "beat" them. You're at the mercy of the examiner and it boils down to whatever they interpret. Many FBI applicants have attempted to sue the FBI after being DQ'd on the poly exam - its almost like a defamation.

Bottom line. It sucks you didn't get hired by the first agency of your choice. But if they are questioning your truthfullness, character or integrity sounds to me YOU DON'T want to work there. Remember you're on the outside looking in and applicants are often sold used cars. It looks good until you drive it a couple years and then you realize it wasn't such a good deal after all.


Apply with U.S.M.S. you won't be disappointed!!! There are a few other 1811 jobs out there that are often overlooked but would be a good package. Also check out 1800, 1801, 1895 &1896 jobs there are even a few 0083 jobs that are fun and the pay is good.

Good Luck!

[BigHoss]

Jake, its cool. I guess it is easy to assume things in web postings.

JVale, I was actually through the process with USMS and had to turn the job down due to family issues, things that have been since taken care of. I have thought trying to get back in that process, but it took 5 years the first time, dont know if I can take it another 5 years. Plus I really want to take another poly, I have passed one already with the State Police in my state, and want another opportunity to pass one again to prove my honesty. Heck I am no boyscout, but I have never had anything to hide. Thanks to all for the constructive criticsm. I have confidence that if I can get on once with a Federal Agency I can do it again.

[jvale00]

take the state job for a couple of years that'll be a hell of a resume builder!

[Kimble]

I agree with JVale on the state gig, but just to clarify a few points I'm not clear on...

I was actually through the process with USMS and had to turn the job down... I have thought trying to get back in that process, but it took 5 years the first time, dont know if I can take it another 5 years.

This makes no sense to me. If you're interested in USMS, apply. If it takes 5 years, live your life to the fullest in the mean time, and if things work out again, you'll have another job offer. I'd understand if you were 36 and about to hit the age cut-off, but to not try again just because it may take some time (and you've got other things popping up that you can do in the mean time) just seems a bit silly to me. It's is totally your call, though.

Plus I really want to take another poly, I have passed one already with the State Police in my state, and want another opportunity to pass one again to prove my honesty.

Prove your honesty to who? :confused: You're not going to convince the agency you failed the poly with. To yourself? Let's be real here, applying to an agency just so you can take and pass a poly is also a bit silly. The poly is a screening tool, period. It's designed to weed out dishonest candidates, but some agencies tend to use it to thin the heard of overly-full applicants, too. If you need a stranger with a laptop computer and a device that measures physical changes to tell you you're an honest person, you may need to seek other forms of outside approval.

I have confidence that if I can get on once with a Federal Agency I can do it again.

So like I said above, apply again. Applying today puts you one day closer to another offer. So what if it takes another 5 years. If it gets you into the career you feel you're right for, do it!

[rix031]

something else to keep in mind HOSS, i applied with the secret service many years ago and made it through the entire process, including the polygraph, and received the same letter. every agency conducts their processes differently. personally, i believe the secret services' process is the most inconsistent and odd. ive seen applicants that were hired that seemed to have less credentials than myself or others and ive seen the opposite. i work with an guy who has a law degree, military, and is currently a fed that didnt get hired. i have no idea why they seem to waste money on people by forwarding them through the process knowing that they are not the most qualified. qualifications seem like the easiest thing to measure. it seems to me if you apply and are not among the most qualified, why make us go through a test, interview, polygraph, background, etc.? why waste everyone's time and $$? i have alot of respect for how ice and the usms conducts their hiring. dont get me wrong, they are far from perfect, but they seem to weed people out before initiating the process.