Federal Flight Deck Officers

[intheaircop2]

Allied Pilots Association Voices Strong Support for Legislation to Improve Federal Flight Deck Officer Program

APA Press Release



The Allied Pilots Association (APA), collective bargaining agent for the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines (NYSE:AMR), expressed its strong support for the Improving America's Security Act of 2007 and urged Congress to pass the legislation without further delay. The bill, which was introduced yesterday, is designed to address shortcomings in the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program.



"Senator Bunning's amendment significantly improves the FFDO program by requiring the Department of Homeland Security to implement the program as Congress originally intended," said Captain Ralph Hunter, president of the Allied Pilots Association. "The improvements will attract more pilots into the program by eliminating needless restrictions and will also expand coverage to international flights."



According to Hunter, many pilots have declined participation because of the Transportation Security Administration's cumbersome application and participation requirements, non-standard badging and weapons restrictions, requirement for pilots to train at their own expense and the inability to protect international flights.



The proposed legislation—resulting from the combined efforts of U.S. Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY), APA's Committee for Armed Defense of the Cockpit (CADC), the Coalition of Airline Pilots Association and the Federal Flight Deck Officer's Association—proposes changes in five areas of concern:



— Eliminates the lock box and permits FFDOs to carry their weapon on their person like other federal officers.



— Permits FFDOs to carry firearms on international flights.



— Provides a metal badge for identification of FFDOs to other law enforcement officers in a crisis.



— Provides due process protection to applicants and participants in the program.



— Holds the U.S. State Department accountable to Congress for progress in negotiating agreements with foreign countries for FFDO carriage.



"We have been very pleased with administration of the program under the Federal Air Marshal Service," said First Officer Mike Karn, who chairs APA's CADC. "However, this amendment is essential to ensure the FFDO program operates as originally intended by Congress. It is imperative that this program be permitted to function effectively as a first line of deterrence and last line of defense against the hostile takeover of a U.S. airliner."






I want to know what you guys think about this?

[Group9]

Well, since we're in public forums, I won't say much except that I think the program is fine like it is, and is a lot better the way it is now, than it would be with these changes.

[Sierra]

One or two weeks training does not make a federal law enforcement officer. An FFDO is nothing more than a pilot with weapons training.

[Maverick24]

--Eliminates the lock box and permits FFDOs to carry their weapon on their person like other federal officers.

This is crazy. I dont care what these guys say, they are NOT true fed officers anywhere other then the cockpit of the aircraft. 1 week of training does not qualify you to carry a weapon anywhere, anytime, in a LEO capacity. If this happens its only a matter of time before some cowboy decides to play cop, and the public will then wonder why a guy with 6 days of training is running around with a gun.

— Permits FFDOs to carry firearms on international flights.

As much as they want to do this I think its pretty much a pipe dream. The logistics are hard enough for real LEO's to get permission to carry on international much less pilots. I just read an article that England is already against this big time, and the bottom line is its not up to congress its up to the nation you are flying to. I cant ever see this happening in any sort of a wide capacity.

— Provides a metal badge for identification of FFDOs to other law enforcement officers in a crisis.

Creds are plenty, we dont need to see a badge to know who you are. That being said I dont think this is a huge deal, let them have the badges if it makes them happy.

— Provides due process protection to applicants and participants in the program.

Thats fine they should have due process and protection AS LONG as they operate within their capacity ie the flight deck.

— Holds the U.S. State Department accountable to Congress for progress in negotiating agreements with foreign countries for FFDO carriage.

Again they have no idea the logistics and money involved in this, much less the resistance other nations will have to ever allow this to happen. Again, its a pipe dream.

Having said all of this I want to say that I do support the FFDO program. Having another layer of protection is not a bad thing. I also agree that there should be improvments made to how the program currently operates. We have to remember however that this program was originally set up to protect the cockpit so 911 dosent happen again........thats it. It was not set up for air crew to handle other LE situations and make arrests in a broader capacity.

[Lawson]

From just reading the article and not really knowing anything from the inside, to me it looks like a case of, "If you give a mouse a cookie..."

However; Im all for allowing the pilots to carry on an international flight. You can hijack a plane going to Moscow just as easy as a plane going to Boston.

[Norm357]

--Eliminates the lock box and permits FFDOs to carry their weapon on their person like other federal officers.

This is a good thing. Because of the off body carry requirment, pilots keep misplacing guns in airports.

— Permits FFDOs to carry firearms on international flights.

Just on the plane or while off the plane also? Pilots have no need to carry in foreign countries.

Provides a metal badge for identification of FFDOs to other law enforcement officers in a crisis.

This is just stupid. Pilots dont need badges if they allready have creds.

[JakeLock]

"If you give a mouse a cookie..."

You lost me here... I may be dumb, but I really don't understand what this means...

As for the original post, having them carry CONUS I'm ok with, however international is a whole different ball of wax. As someone pointed out earlier, England is against it, their own local LE don't even carry sidearms. I don't think they'd take kindly to some pilot with a week of firearms training carrying a weapon in their country.

If they carry a weapon CONUS, great, fine, whatever. If they carry on an international flight, the weapon should remain on the A/C until it's off the ground. They are not LEO's of any form, just pilots right? What would they need a weapon off the plane for?

Even when I was on the Marshall Islands (the airport was pretty much the whole island) they had security. Guys who are paid to be security for whatever plane flies into their airport. When we were coming back from overseas in uniform they still treated us like everyone else, which, oddly enough, I respected.

Last time I checked even licensed and certified US LEO's cannot carry outside of the US unless on certain orders. I highly doubt our Gov't will allow pilots to carry a weapon in another country.

I think if this went in to effect it'd only be a certain length of time before some pilot decided to take some situation into his or her own hands and end up spending the rest of their life in another countries prison due to an arms violation.

[Maverick24]

Just to clarify, pilots would NOT be carrying weapons into any other country. They would turn them into the local authorities and get them back upon leaving. Believe it or not, just to get this done is a big deal in many countries as England has come out as one of the first to oppose allowing pilots to carry. Special arrangements need to be made to allow this, and the way I see it, it would be a logistical nightmare to include FFDO's along with FAMS or other LEO's.

[EndlessEcko]

Interesting...They would certainly need weeks and weeks more of firearms training...and that's only for starters.

[Supersonic527]

What happens to FAMs' firearms once in another country? (Provided it's not OPSEC)

[InternBoy]

What happens to FAMs' firearms once in another country? (Provided it's not OPSEC)

That would probably be something not best discussed on a public forum.

[Strider]

http://washingtontimes.com/national/...5306-3524r.htm

[Lawson]

You lost me here... I may be dumb, but I really don't understand what this means...

There is a children's book called, "If you give a mouse a cookie..." It just goes on and on about the mouse wanting more, "If you give a mouse a cookie, he will want a glass of milk to go with it. If you give a mouse a glass of milk, he will want a straw to drink it with. If you giva a mouse a straw... etc etc etc..."

[mxwelch]

If this happens its only a matter of time before some cowboy decides to play cop, and the public will then wonder why a guy with 6 days of training is running around with a gun.

Aren't most pilots former fighter or transport pilots from the military? If so what kind of firearms training did they receive in the service?

Give them more training then. If I die as a result of a shooting I don't want it said that I had a weapon I couldn't get to.

[Joeyd6]

This whole thing is just another excuse. The program is fine the way it is. And they make it seem as though they pay THOUSANDS for this training.

1) They use their vacation time or pick flighst so they have that tim eoff anyways!

2) They fly their/home for free!!!!

3) They pay a measly amount...a few hundred dolalrs for 5 days of shooting!

Most of us here pay a few hundred dollars in a day to shoot on our own at a range in a weekend!

If a FAM wants to fly, they have to use their vacation ime, pay 100% for their lessons and get no frrebie at teh end of training! Does that make them qualified to fly a 767 from NY to SFO? NO!!!!

These folks need to follow security procedures in place on flights and things will be fine. Again, teh whoel things is a BIG smoke and mirros thing. If a guy with a gun is LOCKED behind a heavily secured door, which is bullet resistant and armored, what purpose does the gun serve?