DEA Applicant looking for opinions...

[App2005]

I just got the call this past week, and I will have my PT Retest next week. I am looking forward to Q, but have some questions about day to day experiences of agents.

I am lucky to have a really supportive, flexible family. I understood going into this that there is an enormous burden on agents, especially newbies, and that time is at a premium. I am just curious to know of any experiences with dealing with family/R&R time, vacation time, etc., and how much family time I can expect each week starting out. Again, I understand every situation is different, and every office may be different - I just want to get an idea on how to best prepare my family for my absences.

Thanks for any insight you can provide!

[Lfpdlieu302]

thats a good question. i would also be interested to know how much time is actually put in and what kind of work hours they see.

[Group9]

Coming out of the academy, you are going to have about eight weeks before you transfer from your hiring office to your first assignment office. You won't have to carry a case load that eight weeks, but you will have to be available to help others with arrests, surveillances, and search warrants as needed.

Once your get to your new office, you will be assigned to either a Task Force Group or an Enforcement Group. Task Force Groups are made up of DEA agents and state, local, and other federal agents (i.e. HIDTA). Enforcement Groups are made up of just DEA agents.

Both types of groups work the same types of cases for the most part. Some groups in the bigger divisions are given specialized missions, like MET, Title 3's, major crimes, money laundering, etc. In small offices, the groups pretty much do it all.

Timewise your normal day is 8 hours a day, on the days when you have a normal day. In addition, you may be called out as needed pretty much any other time. DEA agents are paid LEAP, which is 25% of your pay on top of your GS schedule to be available for these types of call outs and duties.

There is no way to say how often you are going to get called out. I, personally have had months, where I had to work very little outside of normal hours, and months where I had to work most of the nights and weekends during a month. A good example of the latter is when your group has a Title 3 (a wiretap) going. You can expect to be living in your car if you are assigned to help with reactive surveillance on a T-3. My personal record on a T-3 is getting called out on what I thought was going to be routine T-3 surveillance, sleeping in my car for four nights in a row, and traveling through several states. I have had several more where I only slept in the car one or two nights.

If the highway patrol catches a guy with twenty kilos of cocaine, and after you come out and interview him, he agrees to do a controlled delivery of the cocaine to its intended destination, you are going to have to drop everything you had planned and go do it. Time is of the essense in things like that, and they just can't be rescheduled to a more conveinent time.

That kind of stuff is the job, and why most people want to join up. If you have a wife (or husband) who is going to give you a lot of grief when something like that happens, you are better off finding another job in law enforcement. A lot of the state and local officers who are assigned to us frequently remark that one of the things they never appreciated about being assigned to patrol (until coming over to us) was that you were pretty much through at the end of your shift, and that they would know what their shifts were going to be weeks in advance.

That is the biggest problem with time management as a DEA agent. It is not so much the extra hours, it is that you rarely know when you are going to have to put in those extra hours. The best you can hope for is being told a day or two in advance about an after hours operation. The worst that can happen is to be called at home and told to come out to work, and not go back home for several days.

The bright side.
Other agents are not heartless, and agents try to help each other out with family emergencies and commitments. If you go to that well too often, i.e., you are always the guy that has a sick kid, or a piano recital, or a soccer game, or whose wife has to work, you are not going to make any friends. If you are the kind of guy who volunteers to go out a lot, and is always available when he can be, you are going to be fine. Almost everybody in DEA has a family and a life outside of work and most try to accomodate each other as much as possible.

You are also expected to self supervise yourself to a large extent in DEA and it is not hard to get away for several hours at a time when needed without having people breathing down your back. Most supervisors leave you alone if you are making cases. Many groups, like where I am now, are allowed to pretty much set their own hours, and if your group has pulled an all nighter, no one is going to be looking for you too hard the next day.

The bottom line is, if you are not interested in, or don't think you can commit to, working a lot of unusual, and often unscheduled, hours, DEA is probably not the place you want to go. I would further add that ATF, the U.S. Marshals, the Secret Service, or ICE is probably not a place you want to go either, as all of these agencies are going to have similiar demands on your time.

Vacations.
Vacation time in DEA is federally governed. You get 6 hours of annual leave and 4 hours of sick leave per pay period (every two weeks) when you start out (you go to 8 hours of annual leave per pay period when you have 15 years of service). As long as you schedule your leave in advance, and get it approved by your supervisor, only a real catastrophe is going to cause it to be revoked. The biggest problem is usually coordinating with the U.S. Attorney's office and trying to get a commitment from them not to call you as a witness in any case during the time you have scheduled your family vacation.

Weekends.
Peer pressure makes most agents respectful of weekends and the rule is generally to not schedule any operations on weekends that don't have to be. The bad news is that drug violators frequently don't have real jobs and the concept of the weekend is not really that important to them. For some reason, it seems that a lot of drug stuff happens on weekends and holidays. Probably because they think no one will be at work then. My first four months on the job, I worked on a T-3 and did not have one single Saturday or Sunday off, and had to work Christmas and Christmas Eve, and it sucked after a while. Junior guys are going to get the worst assignments. Accept that, as you accept that as you get more time on, you miss out on more and more of the crap details.

I will close with saying that I have found it to be a rewarding career and that some of the best times I have had have been from going out on an operation in the middle of the night and making a good case, seizing a bunch of drugs, guns and/or money, and locking up some a-holes who desperately needed it. I am a long way from being a company man, and I will be the first one to tell someone not to get hung up on having to work for any one particular agency, but I feel like I have been treated pretty good.

[App2005]

Group9-

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It's good to hear the honest truth, and it is what I expected. Like I said in my inital post, my family demands will flex around my work, so I am not concerned. I'm glad to have finally heard from someone who has lived through it, though...

[tunlrat]

"A lot of the state and local officers who are assigned to us frequently remark that one of the things they never appreciated about being assigned to patrol (until coming over to us) was that you were pretty much through at the end of your shift, and that they would know what their shifts were going to be weeks in advance."
[/QUOTE]
Great post & insight what it's "really" like to be an 1811. Yeah, that's one of the pros about patrol in a city PD. Once you're off, you're off (unless you're naive enough to leave your cell phone on--but you wise up fast enough). You leave all the bad stuff & everything else at work & don't have to face anything for at least the next work day.

From reading Group 9's post, I'd say detectives in a city PD (especially those in Narco units) have a very similar job to special agents especially when it comes to the last-minute "scheduling" of callouts, surveillance, UC ops, Task forces, etc. Because like Group 9 said, criminals don't have a set work schedule like the rest of society. The things most detectives don't have as compared to 1811s is the good pay & the autonomy right off the bat. You work what your lead sergeant or LT give you. And from what my former sergeant told me, your "in-box" is never ever empty!

I think that's one of the million and one reasons why local cops are so enamored by the Feds. :cool:

Just my $0.02...

[Nole795]

Excellent Post Group 9. The only thing I can add to App2005 question, is the spouse needs to understand that you can be assigned anywhere in the U.S. I think that is one of the hardest issues that affects family is where you will be assigned to. I have a few academy brothers from small towns who were sent to LA, or DC. Their spouse is miserable, and when your spouse is miserable, so are you. If I recall, DEA is one of the few agencies where you dont know what office you will be assigned to until halfway through the academy.

Just a thought for you.

[Sleuth]

Group 9, that was a fine explanation. In my case, my wife and parents went out for our 1st wedding anniversary, and as we came in the door to our house, I got called and had to leave. My wife (a fromer agent) understood, but my folks.....
One guy in our office was at work, we got going on a tail, and he ended up on a plane to the other side of the country. What he had not told anyone was he was to be married the next day! Dumb move on his part.

I did have a Judge who wanted to hold a trial during my honeymoon. The Asst. U.S. Attorney filed a really funny brief, citing Judge Learned Hand (U.S. Supreme Court) on the sanctity of marrage, and the importance of the honeymoon. The judge got hung up on the speedy trial act, even though the defense agreed to a continuance. So the U.S. Attorney went to court, politly gave the judge heck, and dismissed the case without prejudice. When I returned, the case was re-instituted.
When you carry your share of the load, the others are willing to give you a hand now and then. Even the U.S. Attorney!

[JayMan]

To all...

This is the 1st post I read in this forum and it was exactly what I was hoping to see (Excellent post Group9). I am an Army Captain applying to the DEA and I have been looking for some insight beyond what is offered by the recruiter...I guess this a reaction from my military expierence.

Group9...Quick question for you. I get the impression from your post that a career in the DEA is much more akin to that of a local police officer in a narcotics/gang enforcement unit than most other Federal LE jobs (ie. FBI), is that correct?
What in your opinon are some of the other things that you would have wished you knew before you got into the agency? I have heard numerous stories of crappy office politics and ugly bureaucracy in Federal LE, particularly the FBI, and I was wondering what the working climate of the average DEA office is. Just looking for an informed opinon. I understand the concept of working crazy hours (7 month deployment to beach with no water on a week notice can beat that into you).

That aside, I am getting pretty psyched as I go thru the applicant process and I hope things work out. I have always wanted a career in LE and after about 9yrs working for Uncle Sam I am looking forward to getting started.

[Sleuth]

My experience in U.S. Custom Investigations: The politics were no better or worse than a city PD (or local Chief of Police was just forced to quit - no confidence from the troops, who went public). Some played the political game and got unearned promotions (one guy got promoted by ""finding"" odd beer cans for the bosse's collection!). Some got them by hard work. You get to choose.
As for the bureaucracy, in most things, with time, you learn how to E&E (escape & evade). When one bureaucrat decreed we had to wear ties, we started "ugly tie contests." It brought that to an end. Plus, as you get time on, you learn what to ignore, or what to do when the bosses are around. It's possible to find your nich and just put your head down and do your job.
Virtually every one of my bossses had been S/A's for a long time, and ran interfearence for us. Results mattered more than the B.S.

What do you think, Group9?

[Group9]

My opinion is similiar to Sleuth's. From the agents I know who were in the military, the federal government, and probably all goverment, is similiar. You have great supervisors and management and you have crappy supervisors and management, same as agents. There are always going to be people in federal law enforcement, just like in the military I imagine, who politic their way up instead of working their way up.

I have found that the best way to be immune is to be a good casemaker and worker. The agents who make cases are too valuable to be screwed with much, probably the same as in the military with units that get results in combat.

A couple of things I wish I had been told about DEA is that seniority and longevity is more important than other agency experience. What I mean is that it is better to go federal as soon as you can because seniority counts for a lot. A narcotics officer who worked drugs fifteen years is not going to be treated with any more deference than a patrol officer with two or three years under his belt when it comes to pay and promotions.

And, jobs can be very different in DEA. You can be assigned to one group, and be working street cases, and serving hundreds of search and arrest warrants, and kicking doors down to the cows come home. Or you can be assigned to a group that specializes in Title 3 (wiretaps) investigations of major traffickers where you may go months without laying hands on someone. Or, you can be assigned to a clan lab team and do nothing but hit meth labs all of the time. Or, a lot of other different drug investigation assignments. There is something in DEA to make everyone from Rambo to Jessica Fletcher types happy.

The second thing is I wish I had figured out what a good deal taking a foreign assignment is in DEA when I first came on. It is an unbelievable financial package and it is hard to do a full tour and not come back with several hundred thousand dollars in the bank.

And, the great think about DEA is that about ten percent of the agents are assigned to foreign posts at any one time and, except for DSS, there is no easier agency to get a foreign assgnment with. This is especially true of the places that pay the best, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Mexico, and all of the 'Stan countries. You do not have to be connected in the least bit to get anyplace but Europe.

Look at how many people are raving over the money that PSD contractors are making in Iraq and then realize that a DEA agent can sign up for something similiar just about whenever he feels like doing it. And, most of the time, in a lot less dangerous environment, and as a member of the US Government, (which as you know is a big difference when you start dialing 911 for help in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan).

I'll end like I always do and say that I bet Sleuth, Switchback, and all the others agree. I get up every single day looking forward to going to work and that is about as good as it gets as far as I am concerned.

[JayMan]

Group9,Sleuth...

Great insight and I really appreciate the insight. I applied to both the FBI and DEA and the FBI basically said I just wasn't what they were looking for at the moment, I was a bit upset to be honest...I'm not used to being told that I don't make the cut.

I am starting to think that things will work out for the best in the end anyway...the more I speak to actual DEA folks and intrested outside observers the more I think the DEA maybe closer to my personality and what I'm looking for.

I take the written exam/panel interview 20APR and I plan on taking things as they come and just doing my best.

Hey...actually I have a quick non-related question for you. What is the issue service pistol for the DEA and is there any leeway for using other firearms? I was pretty sure that it was a Glock of some model but I wasn't positive. I am thinking of buy a pistol and getting back to the range and I thought it might be a good idea to select something that I will (hopefully) be carrying for duty one day.

[Group9]

Do yourself a favor and hold off on any firearms training until you get to whatever police academy you end up at. Most agencies are kind of particular about how they like firearms training done and you are better off either coming in with years of firearms experience, or none at all. Being somewhere in the middle is the worst.

Good luck on the exams.