Tough Time Choosing An Agency

[Keven22]

Hi,

I am a criminal justice student at the University of Maryland. I am interested in law enforcement. I am not sure what agency I want to pursue. I know there are many options. Could any of you help me out with the starting pay for the different agencies, and advancement opertunities. I have done some looking online and it seems that the FBI starts off at a higher pay rate then any of the other agencies. Any help would be appreciated.

[Kimble]

Hi,

I am a criminal justice student at the University of Maryland. I am interested in law enforcement. I am not sure what agency I want to pursue. I know there are many options. Could any of you help me out with the starting pay for the different agencies, and advancement opertunities. I have done some looking online and it seems that the FBI starts off at a higher pay rate then any of the other agencies. Any help would be appreciated.

FBI starts out their agents at a GS-10, which is a bit higher than other federal agencies usually hire (I have a master's degree, and with most agencies I would be hired at a GS-7 or 9). However, with FBI you need to have prior work experience or meet certain critical skills (see fbijobs.com for more details) to be a competative applicant. If you are coming out of college with a bachelor's degree, you can typically accept a GS-5 or lower pay scale (however, if you meet certain requirements for Superior Academic Achievement, you can accept a GS-7 as well... see OPM.gov for more details).

[Keven22]

Thank you, i saw how you needed law enforcement experience for the FBI, would it be beneficial to me to maybe get a job with one federal LE agency, and then transfer? I think that the only agency that hires at a GS-10 is the fbi, like you said i looked at ATF etc and they start off at GS-5, or with some degree at a GS-7. Even at the agencies that hire at a GS-5 would getting to a GS-10 or higher pay be hard to do? How is advancement in the federal system. Sorry for my million and one questions.

[Kimble]

Thank you, i saw how you needed law enforcement experience for the FBI, would it be beneficial to me to maybe get a job with one federal LE agency, and then transfer? I think that the only agency that hires at a GS-10 is the fbi, like you said i looked at ATF etc and they start off at GS-5, or with some degree at a GS-7. Even at the agencies that hire at a GS-5 would getting to a GS-10 or higher pay be hard to do? How is advancement in the federal system. Sorry for my million and one questions.

I thought I remembered there being another agency that hired at the GS-10 level (USPIS maybe?). As far as getting another FLE job and then transferring to FBI, sure it would help, but all FLE criminal investigator positions (1811) are competative as hell. ATF, DEA, ICE, NCIS, all of these are fine agencies, and not necessarily easier to get on board with. I have heard that with high GPA, you CAN be competative with DEA and a few others out of college. Plus, let me suggest to you to seek out federal internships. FBI has two or three internship positions, and most all FLEAs have an internship position as well. I'm not completely familiar with the time frames for moving up in the GS ranks, sorry I can't be of any help there. I think it is at least one year in each before moving to the next, but don't quote me on that.

[Switchback]

Yes, internships can help a great deal. If you do not get an internship, you may think about getting another degree, particularly for the FBI.

In regards to the FBI's requirements, they just want work experience. It need not be in LE, specifically. With regards to the FBI, a degree in something OTHER than CJ would help and experience in a technical field would also prove to be a huge asset. FYI, I have yet to meet an FBI agent that has a CJ (or CJ-related) degree... and I know a lot of agents.

As already mentioned, an 1811 job in ANY agency is competitive. I think it is less of "what agency do I want" than "what agency will take me." This, by no means, is a meant as a put down... it is just THAT competitive.

Now, as an 1811, you should be less concerned with the entry pay than the journeyman (where you top out). Most 1811s will top out at GS13. Look up the LE paytables for those with LEAP and you will see that it is a pretty penny. The USMS is one of only a few that still max out at GS12. That being said, you'll never catch me complaining. Just ask any FBI or DEA guy when they last recived any OT on their check! LOL I'll make as much as any GS 13 any day, especially with all the SOG missions I go on. ;)

Anywho, any 1811 job will pay great. Get one and then try to find your niche. Once your foot is in the "federal door", to include non-1811 jobs, you will find several benefits. First, often, you stop the "federal clock" of having to get hired by age 37. Also, many times, agencies often open jobs only to current federal employees.

...just a few things to think about.

[JBT]

My only suggestion would be to look at all the possible agencies you would want to work for, see exactly what the job specifications are, types of investigations the agency primarily conducts, and the other requirements. Also think hard about the types of investigations you would like to be involved in and what you are willing to do (ie: undercover work, computer crime, guns, dope). These are all factors you also want to take into consideration when making the decision. Also, call the local field offices for some of the agencies you are interested in, I am sure if you explain your situation someone can take the time to discuss things as it relates to that agency. Just my $.02 though.

[Keven22]

Yes, internships can help a great deal. If you do not get an internship, you may think about getting another degree, particularly for the FBI.

In regards to the FBI's requirements, they just want work experience. It need not be in LE, specifically. With regards to the FBI, a degree in something OTHER than CJ would help and experience in a technical field would also prove to be a huge asset. FYI, I have yet to meet an FBI agent that has a CJ (or CJ-related) degree... and I know a lot of agents.

As already mentioned, an 1811 job in ANY agency is competitive. I think it is less of "what agency do I want" than "what agency will take me." This, by no means, is a meant as a put down... it is just THAT competitive.

Now, as an 1811, you should be less concerned with the entry pay than the journeyman (where you top out). Most 1811s will top out at GS13. Look up the LE paytables for those with LEAP and you will see that it is a pretty penny. The USMS is one of only a few that still max out at GS12. That being said, you'll never catch me complaining. Just ask any FBI or DEA guy when they last recived any OT on their check! LOL I'll make as much as any GS 13 any day, especially with all the SOG missions I go on. ;)

Anywho, any 1811 job will pay great. Get one and then try to find your niche. Once your foot is in the "federal door", to include non-1811 jobs, you will find several benefits. First, often, you stop the "federal clock" of having to get hired by age 37. Also, many times, agencies often open jobs only to current federal employees.

...just a few things to think about.

Thank you! That was very informative. I take it you are a US Marshal? I did see how they do not provide LEAP pay, does that mean they give you overtime like you just stated? Does LEAP pay mean that even when you work past your shift hours in FBI or DEA etc they do not pay you overtime? Thanks again!

[Keven22]

This website is great, i spent another 4 hours of my life looking at all of the different federal law enforcement websites for info and i still did not think about some of the things you guys pointed out.

[chewy]

My only suggestion would be to look at all the possible agencies you would want to work for, see exactly what the job specifications are, types of investigations the agency primarily conducts, and the other requirements. Also think hard about the types of investigations you would like to be involved in and what you are willing to do (ie: undercover work, computer crime, guns, dope). These are all factors you also want to take into consideration when making the decision. Also, call the local field offices for some of the agencies you are interested in, I am sure if you explain your situation someone can take the time to discuss things as it relates to that agency. Just my $.02 though.

JBT has some great advise. Make sure you have an idea of what you want to do and what the agency does. All the agencies have various jobs but some are more sitting on your but office work, some are more patrol type and some are strickly investigative. I didn't do my research real well before taking a job at US Customs as an Inspector, and while the job is great and you deal with a lot of dope and money seizures, arrests etc, you also deal a lot with trade issues and other crap plus your stuck in one area for the whole shift and don't get to move around a lot compared to say the Border Patrol where you get to do more patrol and some investigative type stuff and more freedom to keep moving or Agent positions, which also are different from department to department as far as how much field work compared to office work. Money is important but you want to make sure your taking a job you will enjoy, and most of them, even though they don't start out high will have good journeymen grades. Most agents are journeymen GS-12 or 13 where as Officer jobs with CBP are journeymen GS-11. Do your homework before saying yes.

[Group9]

Thank you! That was very informative. I take it you are a US Marshal? I did see how they do not provide LEAP pay, does that mean they give you overtime like you just stated? Does LEAP pay mean that even when you work past your shift hours in FBI or DEA etc they do not pay you overtime? Thanks again!

LEAP stands for Law Enforcement Availability Pay and it is given to most 1811 at 25 per cent of their salary for extra hours that you need to work some days and weekends on cases. It is in addition to scheduled overtime. To get it, all you have to do is agree in writing once a year, that you agree to be available at irregular hours for duty.

The way it works is as you guessed. Say in DEA you are working on a drug deal that is supposed to go at 3:00 PM, but instead drags out and doesn't go down until 10:00 PM. You don't get any extra pay for that because that is the situation that LEAP makes up for.

Scheduled overtime is different and rare in some agencies. The last time I got it was in 1996 when I worked a six day week for seven weeks at the 1996 Olympics. Some agencies, like the Marshal Service, or US Secret Service, for instance, have occasion to work more scheduled overtime.

A scheduled overtime example would be where there was a wiretap or something, and you were put down on the schedule to come in and work six days or seven days instead of your normal five. You would be payed at your normal rate (including LEAP) plus 50 percent.

I wouldn't worry too much about stuff like that in picking where I wanted to work. As stated by others, most 1811's do top out at GS-13, regardless of what they start as, unless they apply for supervisory positions. Then you can go to GS-14, GS-15 and SES (also referred to as super grades). Your pay in these positions goes up accordingly.

[Switchback]

Keven,

I am an 1811, so I DO get LEAP. 082s do not. Unlike most other 1811s, I still regularly get OT. OT must be scheduled in advance. Most SOG missions are scheduled 12-15 hour days, meaning I get OT. There tend to be other details that pop up as well (protection details, etc) that often offer OT.

With LEAP, we are paid the extra 25% of our paygrade... meaning I get the pay of a GS12 in my area (cost of living allowance and all) and then add 25% to be available. That means when a case calls me out, I get no extra pay (OT) or comp time. We are excluded from the fair labor acts. Many guys freak when they hear this. However, there are plenty of DUSMs in my office that work 35-40 hrs and get paid about the same as me. I work a ton more/week, but get the fun of being full time on a task force. I'd have it no other way! Most FBI agents I know average 50 or so hours a week. I do 65 on average, often more... loving life every instant!

Also, the OT is not perfect. When scheduled 12 hours, they count 8 regular, 2 LEAP and 2 OT... on the weekends, everything is OT. Then my OT is not time and a half (don't get me started, as it is way too hard to explain). Regardless, we are paid very well and no one is forcing me to stay! :D

One more thing, I may make more money if I was paid full time and a hlaf for allmy hours in stead of LEAP. However, OT would not go into my retirement calculations. When I retire, the rate is based on my salary PLUS my 25% LEAP!

[JBT]

Scheduled Over Time (SOT), what is that???????? jk

It takes a miracle for us to get SOT over here at ATF. It has to be a big deal, Ryder Cup security type deal, and then it still didn't happen for most.

[Group9]

+1 to everything Switchback said. Also keep in mind that every almost agency, and even many field divisions and offices, interpret LEAP, and scheduled overtime, very differently.

(If you are thinking that they could get sued over such a practice, you are right. Most 1811's who have been on a while were members of a lawsuit involving AUO, automatic uncontrolled overtime, the predecessor to LEAP, that was filed in the early 90's. I got about $30,000 before taxes and deductions. Some guys got over a $100,000.)

A lot of people see another one coming.

[Piggy]

I think what you'll find in fed. service is that no matter what agency you work for, you're going to have your good and bad parts for each (some a little more than others)/ Do your homework, shop around and find something you're interested in.

[Swat1]

I know I am a little late on this thread, but that is because I put in a 65 hour week. I won't see an additional dime because all the overage was LEAP. It is very rare to get SOT in ICE, except details like the Olympics, Secret Service Protection, or Title III's. Other than that it will be LEAP.

Something about the FBI as well. Yes they start as GS-10's, however, their progression is slower, so it still generally takes five years to make GS-13. In ICE as a brand new hire with just a BA and no LE experience you would start as a GS-5 and then progress as follows each year, GS-7, GS-9, GS-11, GS-13, so you would spend one year in each grade until you reach GS-13 where you start getting step increases instead of grade increases. So you reach GS-13 in the same amount of time as you would with the FBI. If you have some LE experience or a Masters you can often start out as a GS-7. If you have Fed LE experience you will often come in with pay parity where they will start you at the grade you were or an equivalent. By equivalent I mean the following:

If you were a Border Patrol agent and had reached GS-11 step 1, ICE would bring you over as a GS-7 step 10. Even though the grade is lower, the pay is roughly the same. (no I didn't look at the scale, so my example may be off, but is just an approximation.)

Swat1*