Interesting article on arming the DHS.

[Norm357]

HEHEHE My very first starting thread in the Fed forum. Good thing I have a goatee!


At 7.1 inches from barrel to grip and just under two pounds, the .357-caliber Sig pistol is one of the smallest weapons in the U.S. war on terrorism. But if terrorists make it on board an airplane, a Sig wielded by a federal air marshal could thwart a hijacking. The .357 fires a faster bullet than the pistol used by agents from the old Customs Service, the Glock 9 mm semiautomatic. The subcompact version of the 9 mm - known as the "Baby Glock" - is more than an inch shorter than the .40-caliber pistol, made by Heckler & Koch, the weapon of choice of agents from the now defunct Immigration and Naturalization Service. "Those [INS] guys carry cannons," says a former Customs agent. "I wear my gun on my ankle. Do I want to carry a freakin' cannon on my leg?"

It's a timely question, because agents from Customs, INS and the Air Marshals are now in the same agency, the Homeland Security Department's Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. And they're about to get new handguns. Since February, the world's top gun makers have been in a shootout for the right to sell handguns to ICE. In August, after extensive testing at federal armories in Pennsylvania and Georgia, ICE will pick one or more of them to arm its more than 12,000 law enforcement officers. In a novel arrangement, other agencies in the department also will be allowed to buy pistols through the ICE contract. Up to 45,000 gun carriers could get new weapons.

"This is the largest pistol procurement in the history of U.S. law enforcement," says Wayne Weber, a manager with the German firearms giant Heckler & Koch, one of the top-tier firms competing for the five-year, $25 million contract. Besides H&K, Austrian gun manufacturer Glock, Italy's Beretta, and two American-based manufacturers, Smith & Wesson and SigArms Inc., acknowledge vying for the pact. "We believe that most of the companies will lower their price to land such a large, important contract," says an executive with another of the gun manufacturers, who requested anonymity to speak candidly about the ongoing procurement.

With so many different officers to arm, ICE and its Homeland Security overseers want to maximize their buying options. They are looking for a family of firearms - a .40-caliber, a .357-caliber and a 9 mm - in full/compact and subcompact form (subcompacts are popular with officers who have smaller hands and those who work undercover). While Homeland Security eventually might prod some of its agencies to use the same gun, officials say the procurement is not designed to force consolidation. "Each agency has mission-driven requirements, so what's good for one is not always good for another," says Thomas Trotto, director of ICE's National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit.

The procurement has caught the eye of rank-and-file officers. Buying handguns is not like buying paper clips; it's about as wrenching as procurement gets. "People use this item to protect their own lives," says the gun company executive. "It's a very emotional issue." At some Homeland Security agencies, including ICE, veteran INS and Customs officer are being merged - and possibly forced to use the same weapon.

At ICE, former INS and Customs criminal investigators carry different guns, even though some of them now work the same cases. Agents from both camps wonder whether the bureau will use the procurement to switch its 6,000 agents to a common pistol: the Glock 9 mm used by Customs veterans, or the .40-caliber H&K carried by INS agents. "A lot of people feel this is the turning point," says a former Customs agent. "A lot of INS people want to stay with the .40 [caliber]. A lot of Customs people want to stay with the 9 mm. It's like, which agency are we going to placate?"



Continued. Click the link.

[Sleuth]

As a former Special Agent with Customs, I promise you that very few people will be happy, no matter what the decision. What an Inspector does (uniformed, at a port of entry) is different from what a Special Agent (Investigator) does, is different from Border Patrol, and on and on. Some day they will learn:ONE SIZE (or action type) DOES NOT FIT ALL!

[bob95321]

from my (Border Patrol) perspective--not that anyone is asking-- you're probably right that no one will be happy. as it is, many people in the BP think they have gone from being the red-headed stepchild of the INS to the unwanted foster child of the Customs Service. And I have yet to find anyone who is happy about the new (freakin' huge) CBP/DHS patch we're having to have sewn on our uniforms.

As far as weapons go, switching to a new weapon has been a real screwy thing for the BP. They were going to switch to H&K .40's and initially allowed agents to purchase the weapons for themselves. Then they changed their minds and had management ask for the (already paid for) weapons back for a while. Now we have some search and rescue agents carrying the H&K's, but otherwise eveyone is still using the Beretta 96D .40 cal.

First off, it is big. Movie prop big. It looks okay on an overweight guys gunbelt, but off duty it is impossible to conceal. Second, it has a double action only trigger pull that is longer than I can adequately describe-- way too long. Now I know many people view BP agents as trigger-happy nutcases-- and while I'm not necessarily arguing the point, I wouldn't mind something smaller and with the shorter trigger pull.

But as a BP agent I must confess, I suspect that if they really do decide to buy 10,000+ new handguns for the BP, they'll likely be whatever gun those Customs guys wanted!

[Swat1]

Not sure where they got their info, but it's wrong. Just got the new firearms policy a few days ago and.......... it's users choice. They developed a list of approved firearms for carry and you buy it. If you want to keep what you have that is fine (Legacy Customs Glock 19 and Legacy INS H&K .40), but if you want to buy one of the approved for carry firearms you can.

Swat1*

[Tweeder]

Swat, can you give me some more information about ICE. I'm looking for basic requirements for the position and any other information. Thanks.

[bob95321]

is there some way we can see a copy of the new policy?

although i suspect it will not mean much of anything until the BP adds its own restrictions (i.e. you can use any .40 cal. Beretta 96D you want).

[intheaircop]

You think you guys have it bad. Try concealing the weapon they issued us(SIG 229). Now as a Air Marshal you surely want to have this "Smoke Wagon" hidden so you do not upset any passengers. This thing is heavy. I allways wondered why the agency did not go with a small / baby weapon such as Glock. I hope this new policy does alow us to carry a smaller weapon for work. I allways am having a hard time concealing this weapon with out it printing and no, wearing a sport jacket / suit is not the answer. If I wear a suit jacket, as soon as I reach into the over head compartment you can see the bottom of the holster.
"IN NEED OF SMALLER WEAPON"

[Sleuth]

WOW, maybe I did leave something positive behind. I had suggested such a policy years ago - the agency makes a suitable firearms available, then publishes a list of suitable makers, you buy what you want. We did that for a while, then, after I left, they went to one size WILL fit all. Now, back to sanity!

[JudgeDredd]

The FPS in this area went to the .357 Sig a little over a year ago, and they love 'em; but they ARE huge. I feel for 'ya intheair. When I worked undercover, I had to carry a full frame smith. That was smaller than yours, and still a pain in the ***.