FBI Support position

[unidos]

Is anyone on the board in a position as a FBI support personnel. If so what is life like for these type of positions. Any insight on what the perception fo the job is like, day in the life is like, etc. would be appreciated. :confused:

[ripper]

I've worked in this capacity in the past... if you like feeling less than worthy, take the position. If you have a degree, experience, or a very technical skill and you take a support position... be prepared to be a second-class citizen. It's like the military enlisted vs. officer, but worse. I was both enlisted and an officer and never was I made to feel unworthy than I was as a support employee with the FBI. You will also not get much trust or responsibility... you are somehow viewed as "not able". I'm telling you this, from experience... before the FBI I worked in management, supervised hundreds of professional (BA/S and MA level) employees, and was the right hand for a congressman... came the FBI and went 100 steps in reverse, having to ask permission to call head quarters to get pay info. Sound jaded, YUP...I am, but that's just my take. The people in the FBI, 95% of SA's included are first class folks... the system and 5% of the people, well... you get the hint.

[eff-bee-eye]

As an FBI analyst, you are correct, the SA's which make up roughly half of the FBI do mostly run things, and have the most respect, responsibilities. Some support hate agents, think they all have big heads, etc. The trend is starting to change as the FBI is bringing on more and more professional analysts, which is giving the support side more responsibilities, respect, etc....but to the public especially the agents are always the most "popular". I work with a lot of agents on a daily basis, and almost all of them are really cool, and do not boss me around or anything. In fact, I am telling them a lot of what to do or how to do it sometimes, like the new agents coming in, or temporary assignment agents from other offices. Being a male, college grad employee, I am often mistaken for an agent, though.

[cmras24]

I guess Ripper had a bad experience.

[ripper]

Hey folks... I've had a pretty good experience, but the culture between 1811's and everyone else is not equal. That said, no one has been an outright jerk to me... but the SYSTEM is set up in a way that is not fair and/or equal. Ask any support employee who's been around longer than 5 years and they will all tell you the same thing. I've been lucky in that I've gained the respect of many 1811's.

Look around the FBI, who holds the leadership positions? 1811's! Who attains more pay and faster? 1811's! Who gets a 20 year retirement? 1811's! Who can sign up for a blood spatter class despite their background? 1811's! An evidence tech can't take that class, but a white collar 1811 can even though they may never see a violent crime scene. I've seen a TON of high quality folks leave the FBI because of this widely divergent system... PHD's, MA/MS, and BS/BA's.... just as educated or more educated as their 1811 co-workers but treated differently, held to a different standard, and not given the same class/weight. So, good people leave the FBI... why stay and be treated like a second-class citizen? Like I said, it's more the system than the people. To be honest, I don't really see the culture changing either... the bottom line is that 1811's have the power and for self-preservation they will look after themselves. It's a natural way of sorts! I don't see any support employees becoming policy makers in the FBI and so I don't see a significant changes in this light.

Keep in mind, I'm support and I like my job! Then again, I left the corporate world to do something for the country. And, like I said before... 95% of the folks I work with are great folks and it's that camaraderie that makes doing the job worth it... despite the negative cultural dilemma.

The way I see it, there are 3 choices one has: join the ranks of 1811, leave the FBI or,
suck it up and do the best job you can. This said, nowhere in these choices did I mention the term fair and equal. Just my take!

[eff-bee-eye]

That sounds like a lot of complaining for someone who "likes" their job. :D
Ripper, check your PM's.

A lot of what you said is also comparing apples to oranges. Agents are federal officers, that is why they can retire after 20 years, due to the danger of the job, working 10 hour days, etc. If you want the most responsibility as an analyst, join the CIA...but don't be surprised if they switch to a pay-for-performance schedule.

The bottom line is, if you cannot/do not want to be a Special Agent, an Intelligence Analyst is a great job. Our career path goes to a GS-14 right now, and agents only go to a GS-13 before supervisory positions.

[cmras24]

Unidos you get a start date yet.

[ripper]

Hey eff-bee-eye!

I get your drift although your take on “a lot of complaining for someone who likes his job” is a bit off target. Of course I like my job otherwise I would leave. I have enough experience and skills sets to go private (and make more money too ;-). I like my job because I'm helping protect the country as I did when I slept in a hole in the Middle East for 8 months eating MRE's and missing my children grow up! That said, because I like my job does not mean I can't dislike aspects of the culture or program, they are not mutually exclusive of one another. I'm also trying to give those from the outside another look at how things feel here! I've been in two different divisions within the FBI and have held two different jobs, both professional but still “support”.

With regard to comparing apples to oranges….there is still something in the federal government called fair and equal. There is an obvious division between 1811’s and support. Statistically speaking, all you’d have to do is ask if support employees feel like second-class citizens… the answer would be YES! I’ve seen a lot of professional people leave because of this (graduate level people). Maybe this is not the total case at HQ but out in the divisions it is. People come into the FBI with tons of professional experience, have led and managed people… but then they arrive at their divisions, and they are told that two days a week they will leave their jobs as Evidence Techs, Computer Specialists etc. and be the mail room clerk or a file clerk. You ever seen any 1811’s spend a day as mailroom or file clerk? Wonder why not, if we are fair and equal? Is there a class system in the FBI?

Yes agents have danger in their job. It’s more accurate to say the SOME agents do have dangerous jobs, and that of those, SOME MAY have dangerous assignments. I do understand however that they all COULD face dangerous situations though. Let’s be clear hear however, they are not taking fire everyday. Most of them spend their day typing 302’s and seeing very little of the “street”. But, many support employees work in dangerous and hazardous positions without the benefit of additional benefits (pay, retirement etc.). Here are two other examples of danger where no benefit is awarded. A G (support) can work a terrorist case also connected to an illicit drug trade, he/she may find themselves in bad neighborhoods and very late hours of the night, morning. By the way, drug and prostitute neighborhoods are not safe and the dynamics can change at a moments notice. Dangerous? Yes! More dangerous than working white-collar crime? Yes!

Here's another example, a victim specialist working a reservation case is tasked with doing a clinical interview and assessment on a victim of a violent homicide (multiple victims one homicide). The subject has not yet been caught, but it is guessed he is still in the area. So the VS goes to one of the victims home to do the interview... the VS travels 4 hours from his/her division, has no radio contact because a repeater cannot hit that far out, and there is no cell service out there (wait, did I say the VS’s don’t get cell phones? 1811’s do). He/she arrives at the house, begins the interview and the victim becomes violent. Why? Because the VS works for the FBI, the US government and some people hate the US Government bad enough to want to hurt us! Before you know it, a guy comes out from the back room... ah… the alleged perp of the homicide. He jumps in and the situation turns very ugly. What does the VS use to defend him/herself? A gun? No! Who can the VS call? No radio, no phone and 4 hours from help! Sticky situation huh? A dangerous job? Yes! More dangerous than an SA working an espionage case like "walker"? Yes!

Yet another… A G is working late at night in a not so good neighborhood. Let’s sayt he G is doing some paperwork, looking down in the dark at a notepad. Someone taps on the window. The G looks up and an armed man is standing there, and forces the G out of the car. Where can this situation go? G gets car jacked? Maybe. G gets assaulted and robbed? Maybe. G get killed because the gunman is wacked out on drugs. Maybe. Don’t know about you, but I don’t care to roll those dice!

Look, I’ve been in combat (ground pounder with the Marines) … got a combat action medal and numerous citations for it too… so I know what if feels like to be REALLY afraid. Man, there have been times in my jobs with the FBI when I have felt very afraid for my life and, I have no device to defend myself.

Agents also get LEAP based on uncontrollable overtime... here's another example of unfair and unequal: G's often times don't know when their days off will be, or they change at the drop of a hat. One week a G might work 7 am - 5 pm then the next week pull 3 pm - 1 am (hell they could change within the same workweek). Or, they can work a case in a different city for 20 or 30 days, 12 hours a day, with no days off. Try scheduling doctors appointments, activities with your kids, and a life around a schedule that changes from hour to hour, and when your workday can extend from 8 to 12 hours in less than 30 minutes notice. Better keep an overnight bag packed with you too. Can work take you out of town on an overnight 15 hours a way on a moments notice? YUP! It's just how it is for G's. Ok, so I know a lot agents... a lot of agents are my friends. NONE of them have a schedule like the G's and none of them work the crazy hours, weekends, nights, holidays etc etc. that a G does regularly. But, they are getting 25% more for uncontrollable overtime. Considering a G’s schedule…does that seem fair?

Support staff do not lead or control policy in the FBI... Agents do. That's neither dangerous or federal officer type work… it's administrative. So, why not let support gain and earn/share those positions. Who oversees the IA program? Who oversees the intelligence division? My guess is it's an agent who is not an analyst or an intelligence officer!

Again E-B-E, I'm simply telling it through my eyes and though I'm jaded in some ways, I can still like my job. You can tell all the good things and I'll be the devils advocate... that way everyone reading these posts can get a "fair and balanced" view.. and this is not even fox. ;-). No harm no foul E-B-E! I’ll check my PM’s now!

[eff-bee-eye]

Ripper..nice post. Thanks for taking the time to help clarify some of your views.

I'm not trying to come off saying that our job is the best or anything. I know there is a lot of change needed. As you said in the other thread, it will be very interesting to see what (if any) changes are brought about with the 9-11 commission findings and reports.

Our job definitely has a lot of trade-offs. We are not forced to move like the agents is the biggest one for me. You're right, I have limited experience working in a FO and I could see how analysts out in the field may get the crap duties now and then. At HQ, this does not happen to me at all. For promotion potential, HQ is the place to be, this is where "the money" is at. With that being said, I will probably still move out to the field, or possibly become an agent myself.

In any case, playing devil's advocate is great to open some eyes.

[tomahawk134]

Ripper sound you if you have issues with the FBI, maybe time for a vocation change

tomwoolworth

[ripper]

I'm with you E-B-E! HQ is the place for advancement and pay (at a faster clip). I just returned from doing some very cool work...that's what makes the job so GOOD. Working the people we work and being the tip of the arrow… it’s great.

I should make this clear too... I have the highest regard for the men and women of the FBI. When I look around me, I know that it's the people that make the agency so good. In the past, I've worked daily (as a partner) with 1811's on our violent crime squads... responding to homicides, DV's, you name it... everything you an imagine in the "knife, gun and bat club". And, in the CI and CT side of the house, it’s the same. Good folks all the way around. I guess the point was that there are just some things indigenous to the system that to me, do not seem right. It’s not the people, but rather an outdated system. Even my men on the military end of the house, get fair and equal access. If they work in a hazardous environment, we give them weapons to protect themselves (many of them only 18 years old), we give them the same retirement, etc. etc. it does not matter if they are a payroll clerk, medic, human intelligence specialist or forward observer. Basic protection, retirement and the like are the same.

It's not really that I need a vocation change, but it's about speaking up for what's right. It's true that often times agencies have a good grasp of what's legal and illegal, but do they address the degradation of what is right and wrong, fair and unfair, equal and not equal. For me personally, it's a matter of speaking up. If I truly wanted a vocation change, I would have left the FBI and taken one of 1811 jobs that I processed for (non-FBI) but declined. Leaving would have been like running away from the matter. I suspect too, that this matter is not limited to the FBI, and by the way… did I mention that I LIKE MY JOB and the PEOPLE I WORK WITH OUR OUTSTANDING AMERICANS ;-). E-B-E is proof of that!

[eff-bee-eye]

Geez, thanks RIPP! :D
I laughed to myself when I saw TomWoolworth's post after we had gone through all that explanation. Go figure. Everyone can come up with things they don't like about their current job or duties, but that does not mean that you dislike your job.

What 1811 positions have you applied/turned down in the past? Was it b/c you didn't want to move, or other reasons?

[ripper]

E-B-E, I applied through DEA, NCIS and DHHS. I pretty much pulled myself out of the DEA process to go to G school. NCIS is still in the mix and DHHS... well, I stop there.

The reason I stayed with the FBI is that I really like the family feel here… good friends, good people. I have good friends in DEA and one of my close partners in the field was former DEA. So, I got to see the two agencies (DOJ) up close. I pulled myself from DEA for the G's mostly because I thought it was unfair to DEA, to continue with DEA if I had no long term plans there. The G's were a good chance for me to leave my current division and move forward with SA plans in the FBI. So, that's what I did, and so far the plans our working out. Plus, the G work is good too. The AC is pushing for a Sept class start date. We'll see, I already had the poly and background out of the way... they need to update my background from my last division to here... but that's all FBI employment. Did a urinalysis today and am basically waiting for the last moment to take the PT test... at the AC’s recommendation... says it keeps people motivated that way.

After reading all the posts here about NAT’s, I’m pretty motivated!