Weapon policy in your EMS/FD ?

[mcsap]

Having been through this VERY RECENTLY...

WHat is your policy ( if any) of providing treatment to an injured police officer who is armed ?

What if the officer is unconscious ?

What if you have to runs him to the hosp and cant wait for a PD car to show up ?

What about Joe Citizen who turns out to be armed ?

[Hockey9019]

Having been through this VERY RECENTLY...

WHat is your policy ( if any) of providing treatment to an injured police officer who is armed ?

What if the officer is unconscious ?

What if you have to runs him to the hosp and cant wait for a PD car to show up ?

What about Joe Citizen who turns out to be armed ?

I can give you the side of working for the hospital (Security standpoint)

There really isn't a written policy (that I know about-will look into in a bit)

From my past expierences, if an officer comes in unconscious, and still has his weapon, we will take posession until a shift supervisor comes to the hospital where we release the weapon to him/her.

That would apply any time that no officer/supervisor could do so at the scene.

Medical staff freaks out about it, but for no reason.

For Joe Citizen who turns out to be armed, I just beat the living hell out of him or her with my baton till they give their gun up :D:p

But in all reality, we pretty much do the same thing. Except we hold the weapon in our secured area locked up, tagged, etc until the patient is discharged. Not really sure about turning it over to someone, but it has to be the spouse if we do.

When we take someone's weapon, we make a note in their chart as with the weapon.

For law enforcement, we like to turn it over as soon as possible so the department isn't running around looking for it. (By calling the department/911 Dispatch immediately alerting them that we are in posession)

I can't say this is the rule we follow 100% of the time, but this is the GENERAL rule most of us all follow.

For criminals that come in that have a weapon on their posession, we immediately secure the weapon and notify law enforcement.

Not sure on everybody, but I remove the mag, make sure there isn't anything in the chamber, and depending on the situation, remove the ammunition from the mag. I would still leave it all together in a bag. Would I do this for law enforcement? No. But I would still remove the mag and ensure the chamber is empty for everybodys safety.

Every person that goes into the locked locker, has to sign off that they went in. They are on camera too so its not too hard to figure out if somebody took something they shouldn't.

I'm not going to say my department here is the best, because its definately not. But its pretty good and ran semi-like a police department. The people here are trained, and understand what their job is. We're being watched too. We were very closely with local state and federal law enforcement on a daily basis so we pretty much know what we can and can't do.


Now for working in the field, if I was an EMT, I would take posession of the firearm, and secure it IMMEDIATELY and make a note about it. Alert your partner. If there is nobody to release it to, ie. shift supervisor, fellow officer, secure it till you get to the hospital, and I guess it all depends on the hospital and area, release it to the public safety agency at the hospital, but in all reality, to play it safe, release it to your supervisor and or contact the agency

[MDEMT280]

If an officer is conscious, and has a minor injury, we don't make an issue of the firearm. If the duty belt is not interfering with treatment, the safest place for said weapon is secured in its holster. If he wishes to give it to another LEO, or another LEO wishes to relieve him of the weapon, that's between them.

Most of the time, with an injured officer, the other cops seem to teleport in or something anyway, so we rarely wind up with an injured officer by himself. If we did have to load and go, and had to remove the duty belt, it would remain in the physical possession of a fire/EMS crew member until it could be turned over to a LEO.

Joe Citizen will be relieved of his firearm and have it turned over to a LEO for safe-keeping. The manner in which he is relieved of said firearm depends on whether he has a valid reason and permit to carry or not. Either way, it's not going to be floating around in his possession in the back of my rig. I consider a police officer, by virtue of his position, training, and what he had to do to get hired, to be vetted. I just don't have the same level of trust for Joe Citizen, especially some of the Joe Citizens we pick up in our area.

[AnthonyM83]

Unfortunately, officer related injury calls are not uncommon here. I have never responded to an officer injury call where other officers weren't already on-scene, though...

If the injury is minor to moderate, I tell the officer I need to remove his duty belt and ask if they'd like to keep their side-arm next to them (usually they're still mentally recovering from their injury or giving other officers a recap and don't even listen to me or notice me take their belt off). It's probably because the scene is saturated with officers and they know our faces, that the nervousness about someone else touching their duty belt goes away. I usually hand the belt to a ranking officer or whoever is around. I then tell the officer who I gave it to.

If the injury is very minor, we leave everything on, but they usually end up taking it off themselves (second officer always rides with us). We would have no problem with them leaving it on (I would actually prefer it for officer-safety reasons), though.

For more critical injuries, the other officers on-scene have been quick to remove the belt for us (like on the double officer stabbing we had last night). Otherwise it would get cut and probably left wherever it was put down, since we're concentrating on the officer and scene is saturated with cops.

If officer were unconscious and no other PD was on scene, duty belt would be removed and put in the ambulance with us. I would not want to remove an officer from his weapon. But it would be a very rare situation, because ambulances usually have to stage out until PD clears us to enter. Only situation I can imagine is if situation unfolded in front of us while we were already on-scene....or if officer walked out to us or we decided to break policy and go in anyway.

If average Joe (not armed security, no CCW, etc) had a weapon, he'd have to relinquish it before we rendered treatment, for safety purposes.

Note: Critical patients with head trauma often become disoriented and violent/combative, so officer or not I would prefer a critical patient not to have their gun directly next to them (though I'd still bring it along in the ambulance if officer was alone).

Note: We have no protocols on these situations. This is how I would personally handle the situations.

[MDEMT280]

Note: Critical patients with head trauma often become disoriented and violent/combative, so officer or not I would prefer a critical patient not to have their gun directly next to them (though I'd still bring it along in the ambulance if officer was alone).

Critical patients, especially trauma patients, are usually getting nekkid anyway. :D (Hey, I bought the fancy scissors, I might as well use 'em, right?)

[Norm357]

Critical patients, especially trauma patients, are usually getting nekkid anyway. :D (Hey, I bought the fancy scissors, I might as well use 'em, right?)

Nekkid you say.


Hmmmmmmm.

[MDEMT280]

Nekkid you say.


Hmmmmmmm.

Nekkid I do say. :D

You can't treat an injury which you can't see, and on a critical patient especially, you must do a thorough examination to check for other injuries. Painful or distracting injuries may make the patient forget about "lesser" wounds.

At least, that's what they say on TV. Everything I know about EMS, I learned from watching "Paramedics" on Discovery Channel. :D

[sparty]

At least, that's what they say on TV. Everything I know about EMS, I learned from watching "Paramedics" on Discovery Channel. :D

And here I thought you stayed in a Holiday Inn.

[MDEMT280]

And here I thought you stayed in a Holiday Inn.

We would be blessed if we had such ritzy establishments here. Alas, we're stuck with the "pay by the hour" joints.

[Aussie George]

I recently was taken to hospital after smashing my knee into concrete while performing the ancient art of speediness...in the dark...without looking where I was running...and tripping and falling heavily on a concrete block.

My partner took me to hospital in our unmarked car and I walked/hobbled into the Emergency Department under my own steam.

We "visit" our local A & E on a fairly regular basis, normally in company with a nutbag or in relation to a nutbag already at the hospital who requires our specialised treatment that the medical system cannot provide. hence we get along pretty well with our local medical staff.

I was sitting on the bed in the A & E with my busted up leg hanging in front of me. The Doc walked up and tripped and kicked my sore leg (and when I say sore, I mean I had soft tissue injury to my knee and numerous micro-fractures to my patella and lower femur - main I was running that night). Anyway, the Doc kicks my sore leg, and I looked at him and said, "You are aware I have a loaded gun, aren't you?"

He was very apologetic.

They had no problem me carrying in the hospital, however when it became clear I was there for a while, my partner relieved me of my belt and kicked back and enjoyed the lovely hospitality of the beautiful nurses at Calvary Hospital! :D

[AnthonyM83]

Nekkid you say.

Yessir. If you're critically injured you need to be down to your shorts (minimum) when we wheel you into the trauma center or we'll be chewed out. SO, remember please leave the banana hammocks at home for your days off...

Edit: Clean socks, too, please.

[MDEMT280]

Yessir. If you're critically injured you need to be down to your shorts (minimum) when we wheel you into the trauma center or we'll be chewed out.

Yes. You see, it's really the ER staff who are the pervs, not us field providers.

[sparty]

They had no problem me carrying in the hospital, however when it became clear I was there for a while, my partner relieved me of my belt and kicked back and enjoyed the lovely hospitality of the beautiful nurses at Calvary Hospital! :D

Well it's obvious who got the better end of that deal.:D

How's the knee doing by the way?

[Aussie George]

Knee is coming along fine. Shouldn't be too long know. Thanks for asking.

[kels]

(Hey, I bought the fancy scissors, I might as well use 'em, right?)

I always heard that you guys were a little QUICK on the draw............

(with the scissors, with the scissors)LOL