NYC DOC Personal Firearm

[MrClutch]

"ruffle any feathers" was the response because someone wrote that before me, it should had been in quotes when I wrote it. I didnt use that phrase in the literary sense. Being the police is not really important to me, its obvious from this site that people like (ex. basher) Id never trust with a gun. The guy is obviously just a an ego-maniac like ALOT of police Ive met. think about what they are arguing about, that cops are "better" then CO's and that CO's are "not police", the reason is because then he wont have that sensation somewhere in the back of their mind that he's ABOVE THE LAW. Still noone has given me any proof or examples of this, they just lash out. The truth is when the DOC started they WERE just gaurds but now they are officers, there is no difference...the job is a DIFFERENT job, thats what basher was saying, but corrections has GI unit and ESU and they work very closley with other departments, the ESU team are first responders. DOC officers are officers with the same authority as the police, FINE they arent THE POLICE, but WHATS THE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!?????? its a simple question, everyone says do my research, everyones willing to put in their 2 cents until they dont have an answer, and its ok to not have an answer because their IS NO ANSWER

[phantasm]

Since you're too lazy to look up the CPL

§ 1.20 Definitions of terms of general use in this chapter.
...
34. "Police officer." The following persons are police officers:
...

look it up if you want to see specifics, but NO WHERE is a corrections officer defined as a police officer.

§ 2.10 Persons designated as peace officers.
...
25. Officials, as designated by the commissioner of the department of
correctional services pursuant to rules of the department, and
correction officers of any state correctional facility or of any penal
correctional institution.

No where under there does it say "police officers"

§ 2.20 Powers of peace officers.
1. The persons designated in section 2.10 of this article shall have
the following powers:
...

cut for length. Everything states that he can issue summonses, or enforce certain laws, or affect arrests PUSUANT TO HIS SPECIAL DUTIES.

so far we've shown that police officers are specificially defined, that peace officers are also specifically defined, and that COs fall under the latter. Also the powers of peace officers to enforce laws are pursuant to their special duties. Police officers aren't restricted as such.

As for the contract

Basic maximum for COs
source is COBA website

8/1/01 54,048
2/1/04 59,588 (PD was there for 6 months already)
5/1/05 61,376 (PD was higher on 8/1/04, 9 months earlier, and more money)
5/1/06 63,309 (PD was hire on 8/1/05, 9 months earlier, and more money)
8/1/07 65,841 (PD was $500 less 2 years earlier, and ahead 1 year earlier)
8/1/08 68,475 (PD at this point is about $5,000 ahead of corrections, and with another raise due.)

Basic maximum for POs

8/1/01 54,048
8/1/02 56,750
8/1/03 59,588
8/1/04 62,268
8/1/05 65,382
8/1/06 67,997
8/1/07 70,717
8/1/08 73,546
8/1/09 76,488

By the way that date of 8/1/08 = date of raise, contract period is through 7/31/09, making their contract current. PD contract period is through 7/31/10.

[MrClutch]

ok since people on this site LOVE to be wrong Im going to WRITE the document that I have IN FRONT OF ME from COBA (Correction Officers Benevolent Association) that I got from one of my EMT co-workers whom I volunteer with, he works for the department of corrections; he said he did not mind. He also mentioned the DIFFERENCE between a police officer and a correction officer, on duty a police officer can make warrant arrests which are because hes on the street, being that a CO would NEVER be on the street patrolling on duty that is the ONLY difference of authority. Off duty there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE they both have 100% the same authority. both cannot make warrant arrests, only warrantless, seen felony, misdemenor, etc. He told me not to be so quick to mention that there is no real difference between PD and DOC to NYPD employees because they still havent gotten over the fact. I told him it was too late. LOL

ok now to the other business.

"I am pleased to inform you that we have reached a tentative contract agreement covering November 1, 2009 to October 31, 2011. We have achieved a package of benefits valued by the COBA at well over 12 percent. We are pleased to have gained not only an 8.16 percent raise for Correction Officers but also a 3.5 percent retroactive raise as a result of the Re-opener."

should I go on?? ok then

"at the end of this contract top pay for correction Officers will be $76,488 compared to the current amount of $68,475. When you include longevity, holiday pay, night differencial, uniform allowance and annuity money, our average monetary compensation will raise to over $94,000. " (actual real number is $94,787)

should I go on??? I think you get the point.

please stop ganging up and trying to attack the person whom is right, not one person so far as defended any position of mine, but many seemed to go out of the way to prove me wrong. I dont argue when I'm right. And you make yourself look cocky, over-aggressive and ignorant (not really the prime qualities of Law Enforcement Officers)

[MrClutch]

last thing I forgot to mention to the poster before me... where have you been? CO's have always made more then PO's, you never heard the old joke? PD = pay down CO = cash only --- this has been a joke for decades between officers on Rikers.

[phantasm]

ok since people on this site LOVE to be wrong Im going to WRITE the document that I have IN FRONT OF ME from COBA (Correction Officers Benevolent Association) that I got from one of my EMT co-workers whom I volunteer with, he works for the department of corrections; he said he did not mind. He also mentioned the DIFFERENCE between a police officer and a correction officer, on duty a police officer can make warrant arrests which are because hes on the street, being that a CO would NEVER be on the street patrolling on duty that is the ONLY difference of authority. Off duty there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE they both have 100% the same authority. both cannot make warrant arrests, only warrantless, seen felony, misdemenor, etc. He told me not to be so quick to mention that there is no real difference between PD and DOC to NYPD employees because they still havent gotten over the fact. I told him it was too late. LOL

ok now to the other business.

"I am pleased to inform you that we have reached a tentative contract agreement covering November 1, 2009 to October 31, 2011. We have achieved a package of benefits valued by the COBA at well over 12 percent. We are pleased to have gained not only an 8.16 percent raise for Correction Officers but also a 3.5 percent retroactive raise as a result of the Re-opener."

should I go on?? ok then

"at the end of this contract top pay for correction Officers will be $76,488 compared to the current amount of $68,475. When you include longevity, holiday pay, night differencial, uniform allowance and annuity money, our average monetary compensation will raise to over $94,000. " (actual real number is $94,787)

should I go on??? I think you get the point.

please stop ganging up and trying to attack the person whom is right, not one person so far as defended any position of mine, but many seemed to go out of the way to prove me wrong. I dont argue when I'm right. And you make yourself look cocky, over-aggressive and ignorant (not really the prime qualities of Law Enforcement Officers)

In the CPL POs can make warrant less arrests with probable cause, COs can make warrant less arrests with probable cause PURSUANT TO THEIR SPECIAL DUTIES.

What that means is that a perp does something in jail, or involving escape FROM a correctional facility, he has the power to arrest, otherwise he does not. His special duties involve being a prison guard. That is the extent of his arrest powers.

Additionally you even said it yourself. TENTATIVE contract. That means is not approved, and not currently in effect. Also that tentative contact goes from 11/1/09 - 10/31/11, compared to the PD contract that expires 7/31/10. That's a whole 15 months SOONER that the PD will be making the same base salary.

Also PD longevity upon maturity of the contract (7/31/10) =
5 yrs 5,619
10 yrs 6,700
15 yrs 7,782
20 yrs 8,891.

CO longevity upon maturity of the contract
5 yrs 4,365 (1,300 less than PD)
10 yrs 5,365 (1,300 less than PD)
15 yrs 6,365 (1,400 less than PD)
20 yrs 7,365 (1,500 less than PD)

Thats a loss of over 20,000 over years 5-20.
COs get 100 more per year for uniform allowance, but that doesn't make up for the 15 month contract advantage, nor the longevity advantage.

Also salary scales once top pays are even aren't the same.

hire 41,975 39,755
1.5 43,644 43,378
2.5 48,779 46,785
3.5 53,270 51,643
4.5 56,609 55,823
5.5 76,488 76,488

first 1 1/2 years 3,330 difference (2,220/year, over 18 months = 3,330)
266
1994
1627
786

Thats a difference of 8,000 MORE for the PD over the first 5 1/2 years of the PD career for new hires per the maximum of the contract.

So lets add this up so far.

$20,000 more for longevity (only including years 5-15, as many will retire on their 20th anniversary), $8,000 more during the first 5 1/2 years, - 2,000 that CO makes more than PD in uniform allowance.

So PD is ahead 26,000 over the course of the career, not including holiday pay, night dif, or overtime, which will all be at a higher rate during those first 5 1/2 years, and not including the 15 months that PD is ahead of corrections in terms of salary structure.

And as to the 94,000 number, PD has the same "average" top pay number.

[Joeyd6]

Some people think they know it all because they read it somewhere or a friend told them, etc..... I love the new hires with this "knowledge." We all know where they usually end up!

Wasting my time to help somebodey not look stupid or sound uneducated. Punching out.

[MrClutch]

FINE if you want to be crazy and start fine tin combing the wording of the contract, but it is going to be settled. Letters arent handed out to employees of unions stating pay until there is an extreme confidence of it being settled.

I dont think I know everything joeyd, theres alot im sure you can teach me, just not about CPL or employee pay, or anything to do with Corrections, because you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to those things, per your forum posts. I did do my research on you though and your posts about on duty experience and the NYPD hiring process seem to be accurate like no other. I'd say you know more about those things then anyone I've ever spoken to.


"What that means is that a perp does something in jail, or involving escape FROM a correctional facility, he has the power to arrest, otherwise he does not. His special duties involve being a prison guard. That is the extent of his arrest powers."

A NYC Corrections Officer has EVERY SINGLE ARREST ABILITY off duty as an NYPD OFFICER thats off duty. They are not "just prison gaurds" they are not "civilians" they are sworn officers. If a CO witnesses a crime he has the ability to arrest. a REGULAR NYPD officer is not aloud to make an arrest pursuant a warrant while he/she is off duty. even with probable cause (lets say you saw someone that was on americas most wanted) an NYPD officer or any officer for that matter, is SUPPOSED to call it in. (sometimes they dont but thats technically against the law) remember this is NYS because everywhere else its COMPLETELY different. On duty an NYPD officer can make an arrest lets say, for a traffic stop that shows a warrant. that DUTY was not given to CO's because there is no NEED for a CO to have that power. On the other hand there are powers that CO's have that NYPD does NOT. for example, search and siezures of inmates and their property. In order to search a civilian you need permission or probable cause, OR a warrant. CO's can do RANDOM search and siezures of inmates and their property, it is ILLEGAL for a PO to do that. Whoever gave you this information that NYPD is a superior department is an idiot and you really need to stop getting info from them. Look up "checks and balances" take a law class, this is a democracy, not a totalitarian government.

[JesusOfficer]

IT IS FUNNY AND STILL AMAZES ME THAT IN THIS DAY AND AGE-WHEN THE ENTIRE PUBLIC AND MEDIA/LAW SYSTEM IS HOPPED UP TO INDICT AND DERAIL OFFICERS ( FROM ANY AGENCY) THAT THERE STILL EXISTS AMONGST US THAT PATHETIC INTER-AGENCY RIVALRY SUCH AS THE MORON WHO SAYS 'CORRECTION DOESNT NEED GUNS', A TRULY MORONIC STATEMENT WHICH SERVES NO OTHER PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO SHOW WHAT IMMATURITY 'ON THE JOB' PRODUCES -BEHIND THE ANONYMITY OF A KEYBOARD AND COMP. SCREEN. I worked Sing Sing for 5 yrs, GreenHaven 6 months (both Max) and now assigned to OBCC on the rock and i can tell u first hand that if u r able to singlehandedly maintain order amongst 50 to 60 fuckin savages who dont even respect their mothers my hat's off to you. Timeagain and again i have seen on hospital runs where PD guys ( who r supposedly better than us CO's) walk their prisoners into bathrooms w/o first checking to see if theres contraband/weapons stored inside or with their hands in their pockets while their firearms are exposed to the prisoner's free hand...i mean..c'mon,gimme a break. I cant count the times I stood near a fellowofficer( NYPD) while he/she is cuffin or uncuffin a mope while their partner is off in la-la land. that whole 'we are better than them' is the mark of a truly immature officer who hasnt been on the job long enuf to understand that WE ARE ALL FIGHTIN THE SAME MONSTER. The criminals are all just sittin back and laughing at us while we bicker whose got the bigger ****...

[phantasm]

FINE if you want to be crazy and start fine tin combing the wording of the contract, but it is going to be settled. Letters arent handed out to employees of unions stating pay until there is an extreme confidence of it being settled.

I dont think I know everything joeyd, theres alot im sure you can teach me, just not about CPL or employee pay, or anything to do with Corrections, because you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to those things, per your forum posts. I did do my research on you though and your posts about on duty experience and the NYPD hiring process seem to be accurate like no other. I'd say you know more about those things then anyone I've ever spoken to.


"What that means is that a perp does something in jail, or involving escape FROM a correctional facility, he has the power to arrest, otherwise he does not. His special duties involve being a prison guard. That is the extent of his arrest powers."

A NYC Corrections Officer has EVERY SINGLE ARREST ABILITY off duty as an NYPD OFFICER thats off duty. They are not "just prison gaurds" they are not "civilians" they are sworn officers. If a CO witnesses a crime he has the ability to arrest. a REGULAR NYPD officer is not aloud to make an arrest pursuant a warrant while he/she is off duty. even with probable cause (lets say you saw someone that was on americas most wanted) an NYPD officer or any officer for that matter, is SUPPOSED to call it in. (sometimes they dont but thats technically against the law) remember this is NYS because everywhere else its COMPLETELY different. On duty an NYPD officer can make an arrest lets say, for a traffic stop that shows a warrant. that DUTY was not given to CO's because there is no NEED for a CO to have that power. On the other hand there are powers that CO's have that NYPD does NOT. for example, search and siezures of inmates and their property. In order to search a civilian you need permission or probable cause, OR a warrant. CO's can do RANDOM search and siezures of inmates and their property, it is ILLEGAL for a PO to do that. Whoever gave you this information that NYPD is a superior department is an idiot and you really need to stop getting info from them. Look up "checks and balances" take a law class, this is a democracy, not a totalitarian government.

re: the contract. I looked at both ways, the current contract, AND THE TENTATIVE CONTRACT, and for the last comparision, it was based off the TENTATIVE CONTRACT.

A PO has full arrest power for arrests in NY on OR off duty for all crimes (misd/felony). A CO has full arrest power for arrests in NY PURSUANT TO HIS SPECIAL DUTIES. His duties involve correctional facilities, not taking POLICE action off duty. He is not a police officer, and cannot make probably cause arrests for anything not pursuant to his special duties. That IS spelled out clearly in the CPL.

You're right, they're not just prison guards, maybe I should have said PRISONER guards. They guard and transport the prisoners between jails and prisons, hospitals, and court. That IS their primary function. PD ESU does what CO ESU does, and much much more. PD intelligence does what CO intelligence does, and much much more.

As to search and seizure, PD would have no contact with inmates, and no reason to randomly search inmates. Anyone in our custody (ie for arrest processing) can be and is searched, and its not random. They do have items seized, temporarily, or permanently, depending on the items. There is a difference between a civilian on the streets, and someone who has been arrested, and is awaiting arrest processing, trial, or serving time within a correctional facility.

Checks and balances has to do with the 3 branches of government, legislative, executive (which we are a branch of) and judiciary.

[MrClutch]

jesusofficer. AMEN.


A PO has full arrest power for arrests in NY on OR off duty for all crimes (misd/felony).

not for a warrant, and in that case so does a CO

A CO has full arrest power for arrests in NY PURSUANT TO HIS SPECIAL DUTIES.

someone shooting someone else on the street is not a CO's special duties but they can 100% BY LAW get involved. Its actually smarter to always call 911 in my opinion if your off duty but thats ME.

His duties involve correctional facilities, not taking POLICE action off duty.

wrong again. where do you get this stuff? you guys are so in love with this word "police" If a perp that is a FIRST offender commits a MURDER in front of a CO, can the CO arrest them? thats police action. The SAME murder is committed in front of a DOB (department of buildings) investigator, does he get involved, he has Peace officer status, hes just not armed?? of course he doesnt, unless hes dumb, carrying a firearm is a big responsibilty.

He is not a police officer

this your right about, his title is different. Correction Officer Ive never disputed the TITLE only the authority.

and cannot make probably cause arrests for anything not pursuant to his special duties. That IS spelled out clearly in the CPL.

I think you meant probable but we get you. a police officer that is off duty cannot make an arrest with probable cause. so your telling me that your driving, and you see someone blow a red light and you smell marajuana in the air and SEE the smoke, you can pull that person over OFF DUTY as a PO? In all of my years I have never seen nor heard of a NYPD employee pulling someone over off duty, but thats me. probable or not.

You're right, they're not just prison guards, maybe I should have said PRISONER guards. They guard and transport the prisoners between jails and prisons, hospitals, and court. That IS their primary function.

your also right that is the PRIMARY function, and the primary function of a police officer is to patrol and write tickets, and pull over people for traffic infractions but responsibility as an OFFICER says something different then the special duties of your JOB. Thats why its SPECIAL its first, foremost, MAINLY

PD ESU does what CO ESU does, and much much more.
This my friend "much much more" you are 100% WRONGGGGGGGGG about, lol, seriously who do you know in either unit? Corrections ESU has been to 911, the big crash at the airport. they are called for outside things all the time. Literally almost EVERYTIME unless its just to break a door down, or something minor. anything big outside the island they are there, PLUS work on extractions and everything within the jail which NYPD is never called for, so if you want to be technical...

The rig that they have is more extensive then the one the police have because it has a built in generator to supply energy to the entire rikers island if the power where to go out. it cost about 1.2 million - thats one truck. They go through the same training as NYPD ESU, they have tactical weapons, explosives and state of the art equipment, they are GREATLY respected by PD ESU. please do your research, not trying to be a "know it all", but Ive sat in the truck and had everything explained to me in detail by officers in ESU. And I trulely hate when people just blurt things out in an attempt to be right as quick as possible.

DOC also has officers in there own internal Fire dept, EMT, Gang intelligence, K9, Transportation, security.


PD intelligence does what CO intelligence does, and much much more.'

NYPD intelligence definately does more, its just a bigger unit with a wider range of cases and responsibility. Jail intelligence focuses primarily with gangs and it is really an extension of the NYPD gang unit

[co1669]

MrClutch,
i am not trying to sound mean but where in the hell are you getting your info from.You said you were a NYCDOC hopeful.You are talking about the job that you are not on yet and getting it wrong.Please can we put this to
rest.Correction officers are not Police officers.Plain and simple.There are vast differences between the two jobs and have been explained in this thread.For the last time correction officers enforce the rules and regulations(not laws) within a correctional facility.We do not enforce laws.Police officer enforce laws on the street.Police=law enforcement,Correction=not law enforcement.

[MrClutch]

READ MY POSTS, first of all I dont have to be a CO to understand whats going on or to have done extensive research. For example YOUR a CO and you either dont know your role...OR you havent really read what I said and/or your misinterpreting what Im saying. CO's dont enforce the law off duty ... BUT NIETHER DO COPS!!!!!!! jesus christ.

If your a cop off duty and you think you have the exact same authority as a cop thats ON DUTY, your wrong. YOU AND A CO (thats ALSO off duty) HAVE THE SAME AUTHORITY AND ARREST POWERS THOUGH now an ON DUTY cop on the STREET has authority over you, JUST LIKE when you go to JAIL thats a CO's jurisdiction, and when your in COURT the court officer can have his weapon but NYPD CANNOT. and your not IN CHARGE anymore. but this notion of COPS ARE THE LAW is BULL. its a myth, false, wrong, misleading. your authority depends on where YOU ARE, and OFF DUTY its all the same.
understand. Thats not me making things up, thats the goddam NYS law dude. why do you think any law enforcement in NYC is told the best thing to do off duty is call 911? if ur a cop, why not make an arrest? people watch too much goddamn law an order and all these police shows and they think they have super cop powers... you have an authority within a certain jurisdiction and that is CUT OFF when entering different zones - JAILS< PRISONS COURTS...and as soon as your OFF THE CLOCK your status resembles a PEACE OFFICER - now maybe you have pull and you know people and you call it in and your part of the whole **** and kabootle...but Im not talking about what HAPPENS I'm not talking from EXPERIENCE Im talking about what it says in BOOKS and how its technically supposed to be.

the super cop mentality has GOT TO GO. same person that pulls people over for a cell phone ticket and has the nerve to be on one while he pulls away...think Im above the law mumbo jumbo BULLS**T. noone says a CO is police, or that roles arent different. but off duty everyone is just there to keep the peace ... thats why its called OFF DUTY

[nypd7748]

MrClutch,

co1669 is a NYC Correction Officer, and a gentlemen to boot. Why don't you read that he wrote nice and slowly so you can understand it fully.

Let me put this in the simplest way possible:

Police Officers (NYPD, MTA PD, Port Authority PD, ect) are peace officers, but peace officers (Corrections, Courts, TBTA Officers) are not police officers.

Basically peace officers can do what police officers (minus warrants and stop/frisk [court officers exception]) do within their geographical area of employment (usually the area around a court house, jail, bridge/tunnel) and within in the scope of their duties ON DUTY. Off-duty their arrest powers for the most part are the same as a civilian (crime must occur in their presence or in fact committed).

Police officers have virtually the same arrest power anywhere with the state, on or off duty, with the exception of violations (summonses) which can only be enforced within your geographical area of employment.

NYS Police, Port Authority Police, MTA Police geographical area of employment is the entire state of New York. They can issue a summons anywhere in the entire state. NYPD, Rockland, Suffolk, etc cops can only issue summonses within the county/city that employs them.

NYS Court Officers have a geographical area of employment at/around court houses in the state of New York. They can write summonses in or around the court house area and sometimes do. They cannot drive a mile away and start stopping cars and issuing them summonses though because for starters it is not within the scope of their duties and two, they are not in or around the courts.

Hope this cleared things up.

I apologize if there are spelling mistakes. My computers spellcheck is not working properly and I don't have time right now to correct everything.

-Glenn

[upholdlaw]

There isn't much difference between off duty powers of police officers and correction officers. Off duty police have to arrest a criminal if they witness a crim, Misdemenor or felony. Correction officers and bridge and tunnel officers are granted " peace officer" status which doesn't REQUIRE them to make an arrest but does grant them the power to. They are only required to call 911.

Peace officers CAN make an arrest in NYC if they witness a felony or misdemenor being committed while they are off duty. Peace officers can only make an arrest outside the 5 boroughs if they see a felony being committed, but aren't required to do so.

So as a C.O. or bridge and tunnel if you see a crime off duty you can arrest but dont have to. P.D. MUST arrest because those are the guidelines under POLICE OFFICER STATUS.

P.D. Has no legal perks off duty over doc or bridge and tunnel. They can still recieve a ticket and be arrested, but the priviledge of professional courtersy is delivered by on duty nypd officers to all off duty officers.
Now d.o.c has always made more money than p.d. The new contract that d.o.c received continues that trend. I agree that nypd has always been alarmingly underpaid and I am happy that p.d. Got a raise. Everybody has familys to feed in these tough times.

Now the real problem is this... There are good and bad officers everywhere. P.D. Sticking a plunger up a mans rectum and D.O.C. Bringing contraband into cop killers. All bad situations, but we let bad apples on both sides ruin our perspectives of the bunch. Not all officers are crooked. We fight the same fight. Both sides have casualties on and off duty. We both have corruption, but at the end of the day we are all soliders on the same side in the same fight, our assignments are just different.

No correction officers, no jails to keep criminals in and all criminal scum walk the streets. No police officers, no one to get the crminal scum off the street. One hand washes the other so what the **** are yall arguing about. DONT FORGET WHAT SIDE YOUR ON. As long as you go home the way you left home and you get a check every two weeks.... There's no need to ***** about anything!!!

[MrClutch]

ok I agree more along the lines of what the last two posters have said with the exception of one minor detail, and that is, that PO's have an obligation to arrest. unless something has changed from what I was taught that is just a common misconception, but I have heard people refer often to this fact, and if it IS true then that is something Ive missed. Because from what I understand there is absolutely NO OBLIGATION to make an arrest, an officer can simply just call the crime in while off duty.