NYC DOC Personal Firearm

[MrClutch]

hi im new to this site, just wanted to say whats up, Im a NYC Dept of Corrections hopeful, Ive read this whole thread so I wanted to ask a few things and state a few things also,

1. pay. The NYC department of Corrections was NOT up to date on a contract, they were behind and they just got a raise that was not announced yet but they did get a raise to the same pay as the NYPD. that is not hear-say, I saw an official document stating all of the pay grades and retro pay. Obviously it is up to you to BELIEVE that or not being Im just a random new guy that could be making things up- but in fact Im not it is a 100% fact.

2. Police and Not police. Since alot of people seem to say Corrections are not police. What in fact seperates the two jobs as far as authority? jurisdiction? furthermore, If corrections officers are only peace officer, what are NYPD? arent they just peace officers too? for example, if your ON DUTY as a CO you are POLICE in the jail (the definition of police -- any body of people officially maintained or employed to keep order, enforce regulations, etc) and if your ON DUTY as NYPD you are a POLICE of the street, but if a police officer and a CO are BOTH OFF DUTY is there a distinguishable authority? or are they both just two sworn peace officers? I will tell you this much, the hiring process of NYPD and NYDOC are IDENTICAL processes, and this I know for a 100% fact because ive gone through them both. Its even held in the same building (1 lefrak city plaza)
Now there are definately bad apples in the NYCDOC but will ANYONE in this forum atest to the fact that the NYPD is a squeaky clean department? or are you trying to say the MAJORITY of correction officers are bad apples? or more then less then type thing? NO DISRESPECT but Ive never heard a story of a CO shooting an unarmed civilian ... but on the other hand I have heard storys of CO's running drug trade throughout Rikers like they were Pablo Escobar. IN MY OPINION and this is not to ruffle any feathers, the only differance between the NYPD and the NYCDOC is where you go to work in the morning. Until someone shows me some status or authority that a NYPD officer has that a NYCDOC officer DOES NOT have then I can't think any different.

thanks for your time, Im interested in hearing some voices.

[basher52]

"NO DISRESPECT but Ive never heard a story of a CO shooting an unarmed civilian ... but on the other hand I have heard storys of CO's running drug trade throughout Rikers like they were Pablo Escobar. IN MY OPINION and this is not to ruffle any feathers, the only differance between the NYPD and the NYCDOC is where you go to work in the morning. Until someone shows me some status or authority that a NYPD officer has that a NYCDOC officer DOES NOT have then I can't think any different.
"

We are not going to do your homework for you. If you were a REAL Police Officer candidate you could have easily Googled the answer to your questions. I will however point you in the right direction, Google NYS CPL 1.20 & 2.10 and take it from there.

I've heard many a story in my 30 yr career of guys going to correction after being rejected by NYPD, I've not heard of anyone being rejected by NYCDOC and going to NYPD.

The medicl qualifications are civil service and will the same, with little variation between the uniformed forces. I gave you that answer.

The CO job may be law enforcement, but you do not do my job. You are a high priced (with O/T) baby sitter with firearm & reduced arrest privilages off duty. The job is dangerous, but the work environment is CONTROLLED or should be, not so with the Police.

I believe you meant no Disrespect, but you had to know that you'd be stirring the pot. Make Google and the search feature your friend.

NYCDOC, any correction job is a rough job, no question about it, but they are NOT THE POLICE.

Good Luck to you...

[MrClutch]

"We are not going to do your homework for you. If you were a REAL Police Officer candidate you could have easily Googled the answer to your questions. I will however point you in the right direction, Google NYS CPL 1.20 & 2.10 and take it from there."

Ive done my homework thats the thing see... I havent seen anything that states that police officers have some sort of status that is HIGHER or more "police" then corrections. they are BOTH sworn officers, they BOTH carry a firearm and they both have arrest powers that arent limited like the arrest powers of say - an investigator for the department of buildings. The criminal procedure law that you stated 2.10 STARTED with the city police (NYPD)

I've heard many a story in my 30 yr career of guys going to correction after being rejected by NYPD, I've not heard of anyone being rejected by NYCDOC and going to NYPD.

Dont believe everything you hear, the process for both is administrative. If you get FLAGGED by the NYPD DOC will DQ you, and they also have a very strict drug policy as far as a persons past and experimenting.

The CO job may be law enforcement, but you do not do my job. You are a high priced (with O/T) baby sitter with firearm & reduced arrest privilages off duty. The job is dangerous, but the work environment is CONTROLLED or should be, not so with the Police.

reduced arrest privilages off duty? maybe reduced feeling to get involved, alot of CO's would rather just call 911, exactly what your union is now telling you to do because of that veteran detective who got screwed over when he was 100% right (even though he had a drink I believe he made the right call). Correction officers again are SWORN OFFICERS and from my research seem to have the exact same arrest privilages off duty. It seems to be more a matter of jurisdiction then privilage.

I believe you meant no Disrespect, but you had to know that you'd be stirring the pot. Make Google and the search feature your friend.

I always do my homework. I just feel like the anomosity between CO's and PO's is ridiculous they are in the same city and dealing (when it boils down to it) with the same perps. If I were a CO and I got pulled over by a PO I would show him the respect that a ON DUTY officer deserves, just like Id expect that officer to do If I were working in jail or prision and he was to come there. on the contrary if I were NYPD I would ALSO show the same respect to that ON DUTY officer if i were to get pulled over. I still dont SEE a difference but it seems to be more the NYPD who rejects the CO's then vise versa, and it is a BIG reason why I personally turned down the NYPD job to become a CO, THE ATTITUDE and the POWER TRIP is nausiating. If either a CO or a PO break the law they will be arrested and stripped of their status so that makes them equal in their own right.

Still looking for an answer ... differance between CO's and PO's if any besides where they have their morning coffee?

[basher52]

Homework assignement is incomplete, please try again.

[Joeyd6]

Ive done my homework thats the thing see... I haven't seen anything that states that police officers have some sort of status that is HIGHER or more "police" then corrections.

You have not done your homework. A police officer can do much, much, much more than a corrections officer in NY State, including NY City.

they are BOTH sworn officers,

UM...all civil service positions are sworn, including the garbage men and women. That is nothing!

BOTH carry a firearm

One under their badge and shield (aka police officer) and one under a permit issued by the city.

and they both have arrest powers that aren't limited like the arrest powers of say

Wrong again. PO's have a wider arrest authority.

reduced arrest privileges off duty?

Yes! And reduced enforcement on duty!

Correction officers again are SWORN OFFICERS and from my research seem to have the exact same arrest privileges off duty. It seems to be more a matter of jurisdiction then privilege.

Your "research" is 100% wrong. There is a difference between PEACE OFFICER (NYC Corrections) and POLICE OFFICERS in NY State. Just because your "research" abilities have not found that yet, you better check the attitude at the door and keep the pie hole shut. You are sounding like a fool.

I always do my homework. I just feel like the animosity between CO's and PO's is ridiculous they are in the same city and dealing (when it boils down to it) with the same perps.

And it all stems from the attitude displayed here, "We the police." No, CO's are not the police and not law enforcement. If you are confused on that matter, John Jay College offers "Criminal Justice 101." Take that class and learn the difference.

If I were a CO and I got pulled over by a PO I would show him the respect that a ON DUTY officer deserves, just like Id expect that officer to do If I were working in jail or prison and he was to come there. on the contrary if I were NYPD I would ALSO show the same respect to that ON DUTY officer if i were to get pulled over. I still dont SEE a difference but it seems to be more the NYPD who rejects the CO's then vise versa,

Coming from a guy looking in. When you get on the job, you will see your view change. And don't talk to me about respect from CO's or to CO's. I let plenty go each week fro minor infractions. But only once in over 100 trips to Central Booking did any CO do anything for me. The CO's at MCCB who dealt with the cops during my time treated the perps with more respect than me when I brought them in.

Still looking for an answer ... differance between CO's and PO's if any besides where they have their morning coffee?

Do your own research and homework. The penal law is clear in NY, PEACE Officers are required to get 80 hours of training for certification and an additional 40 for firearms, totaling 120 hours to be state certified. To be a state certified police officer, you are required to complete 720 hours of training. While some agencies add on, that is agency training, not state required for certification.

And for the record, you are 100% INCORRECT ABOUT THE PAY!!! Here is where you can find the NYCDOC pay:

1) http://www.cobanyc.org.................then click the October 2008 Newsletter on the right and go to page #5. $68,475 is the new base top pay.

The NYPD top pay is: $76,488.

[MrClutch]

You have not done your homework. A police officer can do much, much, much more than a corrections officer in NY State, including NY City.

Like???

UM...all civil service positions are sworn, including the garbage men and women. That is nothing!

garbade men are not sworn officers. but nice try


One under their badge and shield (aka police officer) and one under a permit issued by the city.

This one in particular I find interesting, Because ACTUALLY this is where YOU havent done your research. Police officers are registered with the city and state NYC correction officers have jurisdiction FEDERALLY

A firearms qualification test will be administered annually to determine qualification. In addition, you must remain authorized to carry firearms under Federal and New York State statutes. thats corrections

The Firearms and Tactics section currently has 135 certified New York State General Topics thats the NYPD

Wrong again. PO's have a wider arrest authority.

Give an example...this seems like your just you saying this, because you want to believe it.

Your "research" is 100% wrong. There is a difference between PEACE OFFICER (NYC Corrections) and POLICE OFFICERS in NY State. Just because your "research" abilities have not found that yet, you better check the attitude at the door and keep the pie hole shut. You are sounding like a fool.

hmmmm? usually the person that is wrong starts with the name calling. NYPD and NYCDOC have the same authority, when they used to work at the tombs together before they closed the brooklyn queens and bronx houses, the police didnt have rank over the CO's they are two different chain of commands YOU sir need to research.


And it all stems from the attitude displayed here, "We the police." No, CO's are not the police and not law enforcement. If you are confused on that matter, John Jay College offers "Criminal Justice 101." Take that class and learn the difference.

No doubt that NYPD are Police officers and NYCDOC are Correction officers but they arent more officers then one another. Youd love to think so, Im assuming your an NYPD employee. I took the class, your making your own things up here, seem like you need to brush up on YOUR 101, corrections officers are DEFINATELY LEO's they can enforce the law off duty. everyone tells me do my research, how come no one is showing me the clear cut differance? BECAUSE THERE IS NONE??

Coming from a guy looking in. When you get on the job, you will see your view change. And don't talk to me about respect from CO's or to CO's. I let plenty go each week fro minor infractions. But only once in over 100 trips to Central Booking did any CO do anything for me. The CO's at MCCB who dealt with the cops during my time treated the perps with more respect than me when I brought them in.

well that is THAT particular CO's problem or are they ALL like that? putting people in categories is what has gotten the NYPD in trouble for years, (google racial profiling)


Do your own research and homework. The penal law is clear in NY, PEACE Officers are required to get 80 hours of training for certification and an additional 40 for firearms, totaling 120 hours to be state certified. To be a state certified police officer, you are required to complete 720 hours of training. While some agencies add on, that is agency training, not state required for certification.

the penal law is certainly clear. to me at least. as a matter of fact 2.10 is about Peace officer status and it STARTS with City police. which have PEACE OFFICER STATUS.


And for the record, you are 100% INCORRECT ABOUT THE PAY!!! Here is where you can find the NYCDOC pay:

1) click the October 2008 Newsletter on the right and go to page #5. $68,475 is the new base top pay.

The NYPD top pay is: $76,488.

For the record your right yet wrong about the pay. the contract negotiated for sept 1st 2008 is the one that your speaking of. the NYCDOC just settled ANOTHER contract that begins 2010 and top pay is 76,500, and 91,000 including longevity etc. thats real information not a guess, not an assumption, it hasnt been anounced but a formal document was distributed to officers from the COBA union throughout rikers island so they understood the changes and the retro pay to come.

[MDEMT280]

Clutch, perhaps you could explain again exactly why you're here. You said you wanted to ask a few questions, but 99% of what you've spouted off has been opinions and heresay, championing a job and an agency which, by your own admission, you aren't even a member of yet. The few interrogatory sentences I've seen from you are nothing but thinly veiled attempts to stir the pot. They're questions you immediately answer yourself:

What in fact seperates the two jobs as far as authority? jurisdiction?

the only differance between the NYPD and the NYCDOC is where you go to work in the morning.

When two veteran members, and veteran law enforcement officers (Basher52 and Joeyd6), respond to you, you decide to argue. They're both more than qualified to speak on the subject. They've been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and have already seen more in their careers than you or I will probably EVER see. And yet, you're going to swear up and down that they're wrong.

So, I'll restate my initial question: If you know the answers, and obviously you do, since you're convinced Joey and Basher are incorrect, then what did you come here for?

Prefacing statements with "no disrespect," and "this is not to ruffle any feathers" doesn't give you carte blanche to run off at the mouth, nor does it negate the fact that really, all you're doing is stirring the pot, ruffling feathers, and beating a dead horse which has been discussed here at length in the past.

Here's a couple pieces of advice:

1. You have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth. That means you should watch and listen twice as much as you speak. As a rookie, if -- yes, IF -- you get hired, that applies one hundred times more. You're not off to a good start here, but hopefully you can make some adjustments.

2. If on-duty and off-duty authority means that much to you, and you can't accept that there is a difference between the two professions in terms of duties and authority, then maybe you're considering the job or the agency for the wrong reason.

[basher52]

"Wrong again. PO's have a wider arrest authority."

"Give an example...this seems like your just you saying this, because you want to believe it"

You are one lazy bast**d!

Look it up, we are not going to give you a free ride. You seem to have the capability to do so. If you are reading the CPL and PL, you should have had the answers by now. If not, you need to consider another line of work, as you will NEVER make it in either academy.

Good Luck to you...

[Norm357]

Police officers are registered with the city and state NYC correction officers have jurisdiction FEDERALLY

Bullshit.

[MrClutch]

MDEMT that is the first respectful and meaningful comment Ive seen on this thread. Ive seen Joeyd on other threads speaking with enormous intelligence, and basher too, but for SOME reason these verified officers who Im sure have seen alot in their careers have Something AGAINST CO's they continue to bash them, and my oringnal post was to CHALLENGE the things they are saying. They are wrong and I want them to see that, so yes I did challenge everything that has been discussed (btw Ive never used the phrase "not to ruffle any feathers" or anything of that sort, I did say "no disrespect" but I truely meant NO DISRESPECT, challenging and disrespecting are very different.) never have I used name calling, but I have been called a "fool" and other names, which is wrong, especially when its obvious I am far from foolish. Its also WRONG as a veteren officer to mislead people that are trying to learn more from first hand experience by Bashing other departments, and making things up, trying to quote CPL, or calling another sworn officer who is also a fellow city employee a "glorified babysitter" these guys in DOC have a TOUGH job dealing with inmates, the enviroment is "controlled" because they are there, it is not a naturally controlled enviroment. I read comments like, "your not on MY job" thats immature garbage. Being a correction officer is a Law enforcement job, its no cake walk, they arent lower in the law enforcement totem pole, and if your an NYPD officer and you think that, then you dont deserve a badge. Furthermore if you go to Rikers and your treated like you arent an officer, the SAME RULE APPLIES -- THEY DONT DESEARVE A BADGE.

:::FYI ::: if there was a CO saying something similar about a PO I'd feel the same way, but The "cocky" attitudes and the "I'm too good for you" machismo nonsense is the REASON I didnt go the police academy when I was called for it in July. I didnt get rushed off the phone with recruitment when I called NYCDOC like I did with NYPD recruitment and/or my investigator. I got a sense of comradery amoung officers at rikers, and not a face in a desk acting like noone exists, like when I go to my local precienct to ask for information. I am a Great candidate for the any academy, and I really wanted to be NYPD my whole life, but the quality of a large percentage (I wont say majority) of candidates they have been taking turns me OFF, so it was IRONIC when I looked on this forum and saw the bashing of another department by members of the NYPD, because my PERSONAL feeling was the EXACT opposite when I explores the likes of NYCDOC

let it be known
If an officer pulls me over regardless of where I work, Im going to comply with his rules, my keys ALWAYS go on the roof hands on the wheel and I dont make any movement until Im told. So dont think I am bashing any department, because Im not. I have a huge respect for any officer of the law.

[MrClutch]

Firearms Qualifications: You must qualify and remain qualified for firearms usage as a condition of employment for
the duration of your tenure. The methods, procedures and protocol for the firearms qualification test will be determined
by the Department of Correction. A firearms qualification test will be administered annually to determine qualification.
In addition, you must remain authorized to carry firearms under Federal and New York State statutes.

straight from the NYC Corrections website, I dont have enough posts to post the URL but you can look it up

[Norm357]

Firearms Qualifications: You must qualify and remain qualified for firearms usage as a condition of employment for
the duration of your tenure. The methods, procedures and protocol for the firearms qualification test will be determined
by the Department of Correction. A firearms qualification test will be administered annually to determine qualification.
In addition, you must remain authorized to carry firearms under Federal and New York State statutes.

straight from the NYC Corrections website, I dont have enough posts to post the URL but you can look it up

You idjit, that does not mean that NYC CO's have Federal Jurisdiction. That means that you cannot have broken and Federal or State statutes that would prohibit you from carrying a firearm. IE: Domestic violence charges.

I'm not even sure that NYC CO's can carry under LEOSA, but am willing to be corrected.

[basher52]

Corrections = Manage prisioners in a controlled environment. Granted it can get crazy very fast, but for the most part it is CONTROLLED.

Co's aren't answering 20-30 jobs a night. They aren't doing traffic stops, sometimes solo (Highway & Pct summones car) and they aren't going up dark stairwells at all hours looking for crack head perps. When is the last time a CO worked U/C...NEVER in NYC.

They are not working alongside other departments on long term investigations, DEA, ICE, JTTF, PAPD and a host of others.


I can go on, but you seem to be a smart guy, I'm sure you get the picture.

CO's have a tough job and I respect them for their chosen profession, someone has to do it, BUT....

THEY ARE NOT THE POLICE

[basher52]

BTW, the previous post was the last from me on the subject. Anyone wanting to continue the feeding frenzy is welcome to do so. I' done on this subject.

[MDEMT280]

btw Ive never used the phrase "not to ruffle any feathers" or anything of that sort

and this is not to ruffle any feathers, the only differance between the NYPD and the NYCDOC is where you go to work in the morning.

Emphasis added by me, to point out the obvious.

Clutch, I don't know if you didn't READ what I wrote, or if it was just over your head, but I don't think you get it.

If you want to be a CO, fine. It's a way to make an honest living. Good luck with that. Just realize that in NYC, you are, as others have said, not the police. If this is a dealbreaker, so be it, choose another profession, but arguing about it here will just leave you blue in the face.

There are plenty of good people here with a wealth of knowledge, but your attitude is going to discourage a lot of people from trying to help you out. I for one can only spend a limited portion of my time every day banging my head into a wall, and I can't dedicate it all to one person.

Some more advice:

Work on things like spelling, punctuation, grammar, because paperwork makes the big machine go 'round.

Also work on things like respect and humility. If you go into any academy with the attitude you have now, your life will be made absolutely miserable.

Remember that the grass is always greener on the other side, and everything's more attractive when you're on the outside looking in. You admit you're just a "hopeful" for the agency, and yet you're still adamant that you know more about the job than others here do. Try this: First, actually get the job. Second, complete the academy. Third, actually do the job for a few years. Then, once you can back up your opinions with some experience, see if the roses still smell quite as sweet, and evaluate how correct some of your statements were.

And, like Basher, I'm out of here as well.