New CJ student. Need help.

[holdencaulfield]

Im starting school soon (enrolled in Criminal Justice), and need to know how the type of degree I earn will affect employment.

So, what is the difference between getting an Associate of Arts or a Associate of Science Degree in Criminal Justice? They both can be used to work up to a four year degree. Which one would be better to supplement a carrer in the long run?

(This post has been modified from it original version. It has been formated to fit your screen)

[Citicop]

Im starting school soon (enrolled in Criminal Justice), and need to know how the type of degree I earn will affect employment. I also need to know what I should and should'nt discuss with my employer.

So, what is the difference between getting an Associate of Arts or a Associate of Science Degree in Criminal Justice? Which one will be best for progression of my career since I intend on joining some type narcotics division, such as becoming an undercover officer or even trying to work for the DEA later on down the road?

Should I tell my employer of my past? I have no record nor I have never been arrested. But at the same time, my past is vivid. Starting at a young age and through my adult life I have been around drug users, "hustlers", drug dealers, and illict drug manufacturers and have participated in all of this myself. If there is any thing I can do, I can find dealers and manufacturers. The whole 9 yards. I was even in the military, where I helped aquire and relay information reguarding drug traffiking by sea. After 10 years of all of this, well, I think you know what Im saying. I am informed and knowlegable of the drug war all to well, and have become sickend by the people standing on my side of the fence. Lets just say Im defecting sides. Should I discuss this with a potential employer? Does my past give me a unique perspective and/or better understanding than other LEO's who have always walked the right path? Would I be a useful tool for Law Enforcement. I know its sounds bad, and it is. But its a serious question.

Thanks in Advance, Holden.

You will not be able to obtain a job in Law Enforcement with your past. The background investigation will likely eliminate you from the process.

Feel free to be an informant though. We can always use good information about the activities on "your side of the fence."

Find a new major, there is no future for you in Law Enforcement.

Even if you were to get hired (DEA requires a 4 year degree, BTW) any ideas you have about becoming a narc right away are from the movies only. New officers should be prepared to spend a MINIMUM of 3-5 years on the street as a patrol officer learning how to be a cop in the first place before any special unit assignment is possible.

Being a criminal doesn't make you a better cop, except on TV or in the movies.

Sorry.

Citicop.

[holdencaulfield]

You will not be able to obtain a job in Law Enforcement with your past. The background investigation will likely eliminate you from the process.

Feel free to be an informant though. We can always use good information about the activities on "your side of the fence."

Find a new major, there is no future for you in Law Enforcement.

Even if you were to get hired (DEA requires a 4 year degree, BTW) any ideas you have about becoming a narc right away are from the movies only. New officers should be prepared to spend a MINIMUM of 3-5 years on the street as a patrol officer learning how to be a cop in the first place before any special unit assignment is possible.

Being a criminal doesn't make you a better cop, except on TV or in the movies.

Sorry.

Citicop.

Thank you for the insight, however, I have no criminal record as stated above. I have an honorable discharge from the military, and I am a perfect citizen on paper work. No arrest record, no convictions, nothing. I even still maintain a security clearance with the military. No background check will reveal anything on me, because there is nothing to reveal. This was ultimately the root of my question.

[Johninaustin]

Apparently, the whole "police don't hire people that spent their lives involved with the drug trade and then try to conceal it" concept isn't getting thru.

Sorry guy, it's not that you haven't ever been arrested, it's the fact that by your own admission you are heavily involved in drugs. The background investigator will trash your application so fast your head will spin. Yes, they WILL find out.

[Kimble]

Thank you for the insight, however, I have no criminal record as stated above. I have an honorable discharge from the military, and I am a perfect citizen on paper work. No arrest record, no convictions, nothing. I even still maintain a security clearance with the military. No background check will reveal anything on me, because there is nothing to reveal. This was ultimately the root of my question.

You're confusing a background check (i.e. a check of databases to determine if you have a criminal record) and a background investigation, where an investigator performs background checks and goes and talks to real people you know. Background investigators start by checking references you've listed on your application, as well as past employers, teachers/professors, and neighbors. From these, additional contacts are developed, people you didn't list and may have not wanted us to talk to. From these sources, your background will become apparent and you will be disqualified for a law enforcement job, especially if you decided when you applied to try to conceal and lie about your past.

Background investigations are done for a reason, because people who have criminal pasts but no record sometimes try to hide it. As said above, you may have excellent information to give and could work as an informant (some informants get paid, BTW), but I can't imagine a law enforcement agency being forgiving on such an extensive criminal past for a sworn position. Doesn't mean you're a bad person now, you just need to be aware of what your background limitations are and pursue a career accordingly.

Good luck.

[holdencaulfield]

You're confusing a background check (i.e. a check of databases to determine if you have a criminal record) and a background investigation, where an investigator performs background checks and goes and talks to real people you know. Background investigators start by checking references you've listed on your application, as well as past employers, teachers/professors, and neighbors. From these, additional contacts are developed, people you didn't list and may have not wanted us to talk to. From these sources, your background will become apparent and you will be disqualified for a law enforcement job, especially if you decided when you applied to try to conceal and lie about your past.

Background investigations are done for a reason, because people who have criminal pasts but no record sometimes try to hide it. As said above, you may have excellent information to give and could work as an informant (some informants get paid, BTW), but I can't imagine a law enforcement agency being forgiving on such an extensive criminal past for a sworn position. Doesn't mean you're a bad person now, you just need to be aware of what your background limitations are and pursue a career accordingly.

Good luck.

Thank you, this answered one of my questions. I am in the clear to get a job. None of past employers are aware of this. (including the military). And my family members who do know wont talk,(such as my father) and there is no "paper trail" leading to the people involved in my past live. (I still maintain an active security clearance).

No one would say it directly except ROS. The Answer. No, I do NOT need to discuss this information with my employer.

Anybody want to tackle the first question reguarding the difference between the two degrees?

[Kimble]

No, I do NOT need to discuss this information with my employer.

So you plan to lie by intentionally withholding information about your criminal past? That's the reason background investigations are conducted, and investigators who work them know how to get the information they need, whether a "paper trail" exists or not (and they often don't if someone isn't arrested).

If you lie about your past, the chances are very high it will be uncovered (particularly with your criminal past/drug use being as extensive as it is). Depending on the agency, they could also charge you for false official statements. Doesn't happen all the time, but if you seek another career path where you can put your past to good use, you don't have to take a chance of being arrested for making a false statement to police in your background questionnaire. Is trying to be a cop really worth getting arrested for you?

I'm not trying to be rude, but you need to understand that a degree in criminal justice (associate, bachelor, PhD... whatever) is going to be a waste of money for you. Direct your life in a positive direction, use your military training for good, and seek a career where your past won't limit you. Lying on your background questionnaire will only make matters worse, I've seen it happen to others. Pursue a degree that will result in you actually obtaining a job in the field, where your past criminal activity won't limit your ability to be hired.

[pafindr]

Good luck on the polygraph.

[txinvestigator1]

Thank you, this answered one of my questions. I am in the clear to get a job. None of past employers are aware of this. (including the military). And my family members who do know wont talk,(such as my father) and there is no "paper trail" leading to the people involved in my past live. (I still maintain an active security clearance).

No one would say it directly except ROS. The Answer. No, I do NOT need to discuss this information with my employer.

Anybody want to tackle the first question reguarding the difference between the two degrees?

LE does not need scumbags.

[Citicop]

Thank you, this answered one of my questions. I am in the clear to get a job.

ROFLMAO!!!

Holden-

You know that at some point in the process, they WILL ask you if you have ever been involved in undetected crime, right? At that point you can lie, and get caught in the background later, or be honest and get DQ'ed. The people who do background investigations assume that people are lying and hiding things, and know how to find the truth.

I'll kick in fifty bucks into the pot if you ever come back here and get verified. My money is safe, I think. No one who has posted a thread like this (and there have likely been HUNDREDS in the time I've been here) has ever come back and been verified.

I appreciate the fact that you want to help the community, but you will not get hired into a Law Enforcement position.

Citicop.

[holdencaulfield]

ROFLMAO!!!

Holden-

You know that at some point in the process, they WILL ask you if you have ever been involved in undetected crime, right? At that point you can lie, and get caught in the background later, or be honest and get DQ'ed. The people who do background investigations assume that people are lying and hiding things, and know how to find the truth.

I'll kick in fifty bucks into the pot if you ever come back here and get verified. My money is safe, I think. No one who has posted a thread like this (and there have likely been HUNDREDS in the time I've been here) has ever come back and been verified.

I appreciate the fact that you want to help the community, but you will not get hired into a Law Enforcement position.

Citicop.

After asking such questions, why would they come back to get verified? Ruin their career to be verified as a Law Enforcement Officer on a simple internet forum. (LOL, not to say it could'nt happen.)

The deal is, My original military background check cleared, and I obtained an SCI. I have maintained that clearance. And another background check was conducted 8 months ago, (this time no polygraph) but still, there was interveiws with friends and family, all that good stuff. Again, it cleared. And polygraphs dont work one everyone.;) ( I have been polygraphed before) I spent 2 years in school while in the military, I was not a cook or in infantry, I was in a highly technical field, working with launch systems for missiles and torpedos. Everything was highly secured. And I know how background checks can affect people. While in school, a class that started out with 14 people turned in 6, because their background checks did not clear. Its sad, but it happens.

I thank everyone for their help. Thats what I came here for.
Its not that I don't beleive I won't pass the background check, because I know I can. (i recently did) I was just curious if I should share that information with my employer. (that was the question) As for the person who said Law Enforcement does not need any scumbags. I agree. Im not the type of person you think I am. Im sincerely doing this with good intentions. I would not be corrupt.

Thanks, Holden.

[noelchabanel]

"This fall I think you're riding for - it's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn't permitted to feel or hear himself hit bottom. He just keeps falling and falling. The whole arrangement's designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn't supply them with. Or they thought their own environment couldn't supply them with. So they gave up looking. They gave it up before they ever really even got started."

~Mr. Antolini.

[holdencaulfield]

"This fall I think you're riding for - it's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn't permitted to feel or hear himself hit bottom. He just keeps falling and falling. The whole arrangement's designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn't supply them with. Or they thought their own environment couldn't supply them with. So they gave up looking. They gave it up before they ever really even got started."

~Mr. Antolini.

You may have been the only one who caught the "Holden Caulfield" username parallels with my post. I do face Holden's "dual-role" problem.:confused:


"The difference between a sage and a fool, is that a sage knows he's a fool."

[mcsap]

So when you are asked about your illicit background, are you going to LIE or tell the truth ?

I had a Secret and a Top Secret Clearance while in the USAF. I worked around nukes. All I can say is that the background was not near as good as the one that was done on me when I was hired at my current PD. Sure the military was concerned because I had an aunt living in Taiwan at the time.

But the military didn't do the door to door, employer to employer, reference to reference , family member to family member check that my background investigator. People that think that they are smarter than a BI are the ones who fall the quickest. If there is dirt out there , THEY WILL find it. And if they start to see ANY pattern of lies, deception or people who wont talk about you...you are finished.

[Citicop]

I was just curious if I should share that information with my employer.

So when you are asked about your illicit background, are you going to LIE or tell the truth ?

He's going to lie. He thinks he can get away with it, because he's smarter than we are. None of us dumb, knuckle dragging cops even GOT the Salinger reference he threw out there at us. He's going to show us how his background makes him more suited to law enforcement than those who are dumb enough to OBEY the law.

But now he's going to be straight and not corrupt (after he lies in order to get hired). Ignore what he's already done (and he plans to do), NOW he wants to be the good cop. We should believe him. After this one last dishonest act to get what he wants, he'll "not be corrupt."

No one sets out to be corrupt, Holden. They just break a rule once, for a good reason. Then again, for another good reason. Then maybe no one got hurt the first two times, so where's the harm in a little gain for you after all your hard work, right? Then maybe someone gets hurt, but it's a bad guy, and you still come out ahead.

Before you know it, you're indicted. Your attitude and behavior prove that even if you DO manage to beat the odds (more than 1,000 to 1) and beat the background investigation by lying, the Academy and Field Training will be another 1,000 to 1 hurdle to pass with your lack of ethics. If you beat that, you'll be fired or indicted in a few years. There is no doubt in my mind that this is true.

I've lived it, you've seen it on TV.

Citicop.

:rolleyes: