New CJ student. Need help.

[holdencaulfield]

So when you are asked about your illicit background, are you going to LIE or tell the truth ?

I had a Secret and a Top Secret Clearance while in the USAF. I worked around nukes. All I can say is that the background was not near as good as the one that was done on me when I was hired at my current PD. Sure the military was concerned because I had an aunt living in Taiwan at the time.

But the military didn't do the door to door, employer to employer, reference to reference , family member to family member check that my background investigator. People that think that they are smarter than a BI are the ones who fall the quickest. If there is dirt out there , THEY WILL find it. And if they start to see ANY pattern of lies, deception or people who wont talk about you...you are finished.

The military went to many friends and family members of mine to ask questions, even employers. It was time consuming, thats why it was so bad for students. They had been in school for a year or so, then the background check comes through and they get diqualified. According to my friends and family, both NCIS and the FBI did the background check. I was questioned at the military entrance processing station by the FBI, and then again during school. The field I went into required me to enlist for 6 years. We were told that civilians (with no military background) can purchase these clearances if an employer required them to have one, but it has a price tag of over $60,000, which I sure the employer pays most of it if not all.

In a sense your kind of saying that the United States internal military security is weak, even when it comes to nuclear technology. (and maybe it used to be.) But I dont believe that is the case at all, but like all systems, I'm sure it has its flaws. But then from your veiw point, I can see why you might think that I believe that a civilian B.I. for Law Enforcement is weak. Please dont let me be misunderstood. I do believe they will uncover as much earth as possible. Its not that the investigators will overlook anything, it's just that when they do look they wont see it, because it's just not there. Im not trying to outsmart anybody, everything just kind of "unfolded" this way. I did'nt plan it. Its just the way it happened. There are many people who spend their whole lives in the drug trade, and get completely over looked and never caught. Not because Law Enforcement is'nt doing their jobs, but because the drug trade is so vast, its gobal. Some of them are that professional at doing it, it's second nature to them as it was me.

All of you already know, even Law Enforcement has it's impacts that it cant avoid on the drug trade that is favorable to dealers and manufacturers. It just takes time. Ex. A lab is found and dismantled by law enforcement, therefore, the supply for certain areas has been cutoff. (this information always hits the news) The bubble effect is created. Since there is still demand and no supply, an unknown number of people will begin to manufacture the drug and put it out on the streets.(Greed) So now one lab has been turned into 2 or 3, maybe more. Or if there was already other labs in that area, their profits just went up. Its like finding cell groups, and thats what makes it so hard for you. "Demand" is controlled through programs such as D.A.R.E. and "supply" is controlled by putting chemicals on "List". (and other things) Although they are controlled, they can't be stopped entirely. You can be educated and taught these things in a classroom, but unless you've been there, you will never ENTIRELY understand how these people think. Do you think a security guard at the mall understands what its truly like to police the streets, NO. He might think he has a good understanding, but he dont. He thinks he has an idea because he watches COPS everynight. Just like think you might have an idea because you found a lab? No, it doesnt work that way. Its a completly different thing. PROFESSIONAL dealers and manufacturers know the same things you know, because alot of LEOs have "fallen to the dark side" and became dealers, and they pass that info on to others. Its not a big secret, the difference is, pro dealers, they know usually more, because good ones have friends or family working in a courthouse.(easy jobs to get for women) I'm not talking about these outright stupid ones who throw the blunt out of the window before they pull up to the checkpoint with 9lbs of whatever in the trunk, or try to buy a pallet of sudafed because there nose is stuffy, Im talking about the ones who go unseen and unnoticed, the ones who watch and listen what law enforcement does, and ones who used to be employed as L.E.O.s. They study your tactics and can obtain the same technology you do, but better. I even used to be more highly technological than police, its easy because as a dealer its all free, and it might be a good reason Im here today to talk about it. THESE people (like I used to be) are very stupid for doing it, but are highly intelligent when it comes to doing their job, just like you. Its a war. When your looking for a lab, fishing for information is paramount, but your sailing in a sea of propaganda and all your get in your nets are lies, while the criminals are the dark clouds hanging over your ship, and it violently rains with paperwork and procedure. I naturally have a "compass" that guides me through that sea and my methods of navigation always got me where I was going when looking for a lab. Im good fisherman. Its mostly a business thing, find the cheapest sources of wood for your paper mill. The gears of War has it business strategies. But this "War on Drugs"....its being lost. Look at the CIA world factbook. I have read about every single country on their site and there drug stats. Look at what the Federal Government spends on Enforcement and Prisons (medical bill for inmates) just for drugs, not to mention state and county spending. Funds spend on protection of high profile ex-cons or ex-informants, investigating, vehicles, fuel, insurance, maintaince, training, personell, buildings, technology, lawyers and legal fees. The sale of illict drugs is not only growing, but its makes more cash flow than ENERGY. The amount of drugs actually seized on a global basis is only a fraction of what is out there. Its a war. In war, the opinions of right and wrong leaves the picture, and the question of good and evil takes their place.

(OK, Im off rant now)




So, am I gonna LIE or tell the truth,.....I would lie. But that wont happen. Everyone here was helpful, and no one here seems to think this is a good idea at all. Im really listening to you guys, thats why Im here, I needed your help. As of Monday I will change my major to Organic Chemistry. I have a strong desire for science. I will not pursue a career in Law Enforcement as an Officer, but as maybe something else. That, or a career for a private company.

You guys should give yourself a pat on the back, you did a good job, you stopped a person with my past from moving foward into your field. This could have been really good, but I can see your point of veiw, where it could have been extremely wreckless as well.

Anyone have any ideas for a place in society for an Organic Chemist.

[Samuel]

The military went to many friends and family members of mine to ask questions, even employers. It was time consuming, thats why it was so bad for students. They had been in school for a year or so, then the background check comes through and they get diqualified. According to my friends and family, both NCIS and the FBI did the background check. I was questioned at the military entrance processing station by the FBI, and then again during school. The field I went into required me to enlist for 6 years. We were told that civilians (with no military background) can purchase these clearances if an employer required them to have one, but it has a price tag of over $60,000, which I sure the employer pays most of it if not all.

In a sense your kind of saying that the United States internal military security is weak, even when it comes to nuclear technology. (and maybe it used to be.) But I dont believe that is the case at all, but like all systems, I'm sure it has its flaws. But then from your veiw point, I can see why you might think that I believe that a civilian B.I. for Law Enforcement is weak. Please dont let me be misunderstood. I do believe they will uncover as much earth as possible. Its not that the investigators will overlook anything, it's just that when they do look they wont see it, because it's just not there. Im not trying to outsmart anybody, everything just kind of "unfolded" this way. I did'nt plan it. Its just the way it happened. There are many people who spend their whole lives in the drug trade, and get completely over looked and never caught. Not because Law Enforcement is'nt doing their jobs, but because the drug trade is so vast, its gobal. Some of them are that professional at doing it, it's second nature to them as it was me.

All of you already know, even Law Enforcement has it's impacts that it cant avoid on the drug trade that is favorable to dealers and manufacturers. It just takes time. Ex. A lab is found and dismantled by law enforcement, therefore, the supply for certain areas has been cutoff. (this information always hits the news) The bubble effect is created. Since there is still demand and no supply, an unknown number of people will begin to manufacture the drug and put it out on the streets.(Greed) So now one lab has been turned into 2 or 3, maybe more. Or if there was already other labs in that area, their profits just went up. Its like finding cell groups, and thats what makes it so hard for you. "Demand" is controlled through programs such as D.A.R.E. and "supply" is controlled by putting chemicals on "List". (and other things) Although they are controlled, they can't be stopped entirely. You can be educated and taught these things in a classroom, but unless you've been there, you will never ENTIRELY understand how these people think. Do you think a security guard at the mall understands what its truly like to police the streets, NO. He might think he has a good understanding, but he dont. He thinks he has an idea because he watches COPS everynight. Just like think you might have an idea because you found a lab? No, it doesnt work that way. Its a completly different thing. PROFESSIONAL dealers and manufacturers know the same things you know, because alot of LEOs have "fallen to the dark side" and became dealers, and they pass that info on to others. Its not a big secret, the difference is, pro dealers, they know usually more, because good ones have friends or family working in a courthouse.(easy jobs to get for women) I'm not talking about these outright stupid ones who throw the blunt out of the window before they pull up to the checkpoint with 9lbs of whatever in the trunk, or try to buy a pallet of sudafed because there nose is stuffy, Im talking about the ones who go unseen and unnoticed, the ones who watch and listen what law enforcement does, and ones who used to be employed as L.E.O.s. They study your tactics and can obtain the same technology you do, but better. I even used to be more highly technological than police, its easy because as a dealer its all free, and it might be a good reason Im here today to talk about it. THESE people (like I used to be) are very stupid for doing it, but are highly intelligent when it comes to doing their job, just like you. Its a war. When your looking for a lab, fishing for information is paramount, but your sailing in a sea of propaganda and all your get in your nets are lies, while the criminals are the dark clouds hanging over your ship, and it violently rains with paperwork and procedure. I naturally have a "compass" that guides me through that sea and my methods of navigation always got me where I was going when looking for a lab. Im good fisherman. Its mostly a business thing, find the cheapest sources of wood for your paper mill. The gears of War has it business strategies. But this "War on Drugs"....its being lost. Look at the CIA world factbook. I have read about every single country on their site and there drug stats. Look at what the Federal Government spends on Enforcement and Prisons (medical bill for inmates) just for drugs, not to mention state and county spending. Funds spend on protection of high profile ex-cons or ex-informants, investigating, vehicles, fuel, insurance, maintaince, training, personell, buildings, technology, lawyers and legal fees. The sale of illict drugs is not only growing, but its makes more cash flow than ENERGY. The amount of drugs actually seized on a global basis is only a fraction of what is out there. Its a war. In war, the opinions of right and wrong leaves the picture, and the question of good and evil takes their place.

(OK, Im off rant now)




So, am I gonna LIE or tell the truth,.....I would lie. But that wont happen. Everyone here was helpful, and no one here seems to think this is a good idea at all. Im really listening to you guys, thats why Im here, I needed your help. As of Monday I will change my major to Organic Chemistry. I have a strong desire for science. I will not pursue a career in Law Enforcement as an Officer, but as maybe something else. That, or a career for a private company.

You guys should give yourself a pat on the back, you did a good job, you stopped a person with my past from moving foward into your field. This could have been really good, but I can see your point of veiw, where it could have been extremely wreckless as well.

Anyone have any ideas for a place in society for an Organic Chemist.

Why don't you just keep dealing drugs? You're SOOO Smart and Slick that you'll Never get caught anyway... :rolleyes:

For all your self-proclaimed cunning and intelligence, you still wrote "wreckless"??? Hmm, methinks you're just some wanna be james bond kid who has read a few spy books...

[holdencaulfield]

Why don't you just keep dealing drugs? You're SOOO Smart and Slick that you'll Never get caught anyway... :rolleyes:

For all your self-proclaimed cunning and intelligence, you still wrote "wreckless"??? Hmm, methinks you're just some wanna be james bond kid who has read a few spy books...

HA HA, yeah,thats great, we could move the stuff in your squad car while I read my spy books. If we think the fuzz is on us we will go to your mom's house.

Come on, seriously, your a professional!

I learned how to do what I did from other people, then was able to build on it. It then became second nature.

[Kimble]

Anyone have any ideas for a place in society for an Organic Chemist.

Asking a group of cops where to pursue opportunities in organic chemistry is sort of like asking a fireman about opportunities of being an IT engineer: not at all related to what we do. I haven't the first clue, Holden, but if it's a field you're genuinely interested in, talk to people who do (maybe professors who teach at whatever university you're looking at).

[noelchabanel]

Hmm, methinks you're just some wanna be james bond kid who has read a few spy books...

Well, that and JD Salinger....himself kind of an odd duck.

Im not trying to outsmart anybody, everything just kind of "unfolded" this way. I did'nt plan it. Its just the way it happened.

You could not be more wrong about that. Becoming enmeshed in an international criminal conspiracy isn't like cancer, it doesn't just accidentally happen to innocent, unsuspecting people unless MAYBE they are at gunpoint or something. You made a years-long string of deliberate decisions to pursue an evil goal. Maybe bad things happened to you early on and made it seem like you had nothing to lose. Maybe you saw it as payback on an unjust society. Maybe it seemed like an easy way to make tons of money. Maybe you reasoned that there are no real victims anyway. At any rate, whatever rationalizations you put forward, the bottom line is this:

The decisions were all yours to make, and for years you repeatedly said "no" to a good and honest life, and "yes" to a life of illegal and immoral activity.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is really sad that you have ended something you thought you might enjoy be good at before you even started. I also think it's great that you realized you were circling the drain and amended your ways. But don't sugar coat your own moral failings; this is the consequence for following the path you chose. You are only fooling yourself, and are inviting more failure into your life by pretending you aren't the responsible party here.



...And you know, refusing to live in the real world, to call a spade a spade, drove the other Holden Caufield into a mental hospital.

[holdencaulfield]

Well, that and JD Salinger....himself kind of an odd duck.

You could not be more wrong about that. Becoming enmeshed in an international criminal conspiracy isn't like cancer, it doesn't just accidentally happen to innocent, unsuspecting people unless MAYBE they are at gunpoint or something. You made a years-long string of deliberate decisions to pursue an evil goal. Maybe bad things happened to you early on and made it seem like you had nothing to lose. Maybe you saw it as payback on an unjust society. Maybe it seemed like an easy way to make tons of money. Maybe you reasoned that there are no real victims anyway. At any rate, whatever rationalizations you put forward, the bottom line is this:

The decisions were all yours to make, and for years you repeatedly said "no" to a good and honest life, and "yes" to a life of illegal and immoral activity.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is really sad that you have ended something you thought you might enjoy be good at before you even started. I also think it's great that you realized you were circling the drain and amended your ways. But don't sugar coat your own moral failings; this is the consequence for following the path you chose. You are only fooling yourself, and are inviting more failure into your life by pretending you aren't the responsible party here.



...And you know, refusing to live in the real world, to call a spade a spade, drove the other Holden Caufield into a mental hospital.

I never said I was'nt the responsible party, and I never said I was. I never said it was an accident, I said I did'nt plan it. Meaning, I never planned for my future to be so clean. No records, no one to have any dirt on me, that did'nt need to have it. I never planned a life without drugs. I had always hoped it would come out this good in the end. You're right, It was evil, it was immoral. But Im not going to dwell on it my whole life. Everyday I would say to myself, "today could be the day, ENDGAME". I'm just setting myself up to get arrested. Of course I did'nt wana get caught, and I always took preventive measures. I always thought the odds were against me. I wasnt paranoid, but I stayed alert. I never carried a gun, and I never touched the cash. I always had my paperwork on cars and boats straight, and I was always dressed nice. If you would have seen me walking toward a door, you would have opened it for me, and cops have done that. We even had a highway patrolman change a tire for one of the girls as she was entering a major city. She even got a McDonald's coupon for a free Ice Cream Cone. Women were always the best. Anyways.....


Your are right though, things like this don't just accidentally happen. But it does happen. But crime, it is like cancer, it spreads, and people get involved without even how or why it started. It consumes peoples lives, and sometimes they find out way to late to do anything about it. But there were no consequences for me, I have need to sugarcoat it. I'm free to go in any direction I wish, and I'm very lucky for that. And just because I used to be involved in criminal activity, doesnt mean I have no morals. Have any of you ever been to O'Hare Air Port in Chicago? O'Hare's father did dirty work for Capone, as his lawyer.(dont tell me you think lawyers are good people) O'hare's father eventually turned away from the corruption and turned on Capone and played a key role in putting him away. The lawyers son went into the military and was an outstanding Navy pilot. He was cited the Medal of Honor for his actions in combat. As soon as O'hare's parents were divorced, he went to the Academy, but his parents did raise him right. And so did mine.

Are there victims from what I did? God yes. Am I responsible?

Are the gun manufactures responsible? No. Are retail gun sellers responsible? No. Suppressors are legal. Are those manufacturerers responsible? No.
If a drug company makes a drug and it kills the people who its prescribed to, are they responsible? YES! If I sold someone cocaine and they shot it up and died, police found out and had proof I sold it to him, would I be charged with murder? YES! Would I be convicted? Maybe. But, lets say someone dies from taking Valium, is the company responsible. No. Because the person had to of overdosed on it or drink a bunch of alcohol with all those pills. The responsibility was in the hands of the user of the valium, not the companies.
Illict drug users are responsible for their own use. I never knew who any of this stuff was going to, just like drug companies dont know who any there drugs are going. Both legal and illegal drugs fall into the hands of responsible users, and they both fall into the hands of children and junkies. So am I responsible? I'm sure the majority say yes. But I never met any dissapointed end users, nor did I hear of any deaths. I would not have claimed responsibility, just like a drug company would have done. Its not the drug companies fault. Its the users. When a person gets busted with valium and no prescription, do police make the same effort the find the seller as they do when someone gets busted with MDMA? More people abuse valium than MDMA, therefore its more of a widespread problem, right? And the children, would somebody THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! LOL. Children get targeted by drug dealers. Im sure the low-life ones do. But I never have...have I? 18 year olds don't get targeted because they are young and vulnerable and fall to peer pressure easy, they get targeted because, one: 18 year old don't have badges, two: they are usually in a state of experimentation, and three: they have reached the universal age of sufferage and are responsible for their own actions.

My point is, the question of responsibility has to be answered on a case by case basis, therefore, you can't tell me what I'm responsible for and what I'm not. You can say Im responsible for my own actions, but not the actions of others. I know what I'm responsible for. So yes, you are right, I did reason there were no real victims, because those people are responsible for their own actions. Had they not got it from me or one of my dealers, they would have got it elsewhere, just like a gun. If they were too drunk to get the bullets at a pawn shop they would have purchased them at Wal-Mart.

Living in a real world, to call a spade a spade. Well, reality is only a matter of perception, and we all preceive things differently. Abortion or Anti-Abortion? Obama or McCain? Sweetend or Un-sweetend? Do we need more Law Enforcement or do we live in a Police-State? Everyone in the "War on Drugs", has a different perception, and since neither side will never really win, those differences will always remain. Both Law Enforcement and Drug Manufacturers will continue to do what they do, even when it seems as if there is nothing left. One side will be doing better than the other, then the power will shift to the other side for a while. Its the Laws of Nature, it will always balance itself, and both will always exist.

[holdencaulfield]

Asking a group of cops where to pursue opportunities in organic chemistry is sort of like asking a fireman about opportunities of being an IT engineer: not at all related to what we do. I haven't the first clue, Holden, but if it's a field you're genuinely interested in, talk to people who do (maybe professors who teach at whatever university you're looking at).

Its OFF TO THE CAREER COUNSELLOR'S OFFICE!!
Thanks, Holden.

[noelchabanel]

My point is, the question of responsibility has to be answered on a case by case basis, therefore, you can't tell me what I'm responsible for and what I'm not. You can say Im responsible for my own actions, but not the actions of others. I know what I'm responsible for. So yes, you are right, I did reason there were no real victims, because those people are responsible for their own actions. Had they not got it from me or one of my dealers, they would have got it elsewhere, just like a gun. If they were too drunk to get the bullets at a pawn shop they would have purchased them at Wal-Mart.

Living in a real world, to call a spade a spade. Well, reality is only a matter of perception, and we all preceive things differently. Abortion or Anti-Abortion? Obama or McCain? Sweetend or Un-sweetend? Do we need more Law Enforcement or do we live in a Police-State? Everyone in the "War on Drugs", has a different perception, and since neither side will never really win, those differences will always remain. Both Law Enforcement and Drug Manufacturers will continue to do what they do, even when it seems as if there is nothing left. One side will be doing better than the other, then the power will shift to the other side for a while. Its the Laws of Nature, it will always balance itself, and both will always exist.

Opinion and preference don't make reality. I can opine that gnomes and time travel are real, but that doesn't make it so. Everyone is in fact responsible for what they do in life, and the results of bad behavior are real. Anyone abused as a child can tell you that. Some bad choices affect both others and ourselves in terrible ways we probably won't ever know, whether we happen to be on the winning side or not. The fact that both sides exist does not imply that both sides SHOULD exist...and the "shoulds" are after all the whole point of ethics.

[Samuel]

I never said I was'nt the responsible party, and I never said I was. I never said it was an accident, I said I did'nt plan it. Meaning, I never planned for my future to be so clean. No records, no one to have any dirt on me, that did'nt need to have it. I never planned a life without drugs. I had always hoped it would come out this good in the end. You're right, It was evil, it was immoral. But Im not going to dwell on it my whole life. Everyday I would say to myself, "today could be the day, ENDGAME". I'm just setting myself up to get arrested. Of course I did'nt wana get caught, and I always took preventive measures. I always thought the odds were against me. I wasnt paranoid, but I stayed alert. I never carried a gun, and I never touched the cash. I always had my paperwork on cars and boats straight, and I was always dressed nice. If you would have seen me walking toward a door, you would have opened it for me, and cops have done that. We even had a highway patrolman change a tire for one of the girls as she was entering a major city. She even got a McDonald's coupon for a free Ice Cream Cone. Women were always the best. Anyways.....


Your are right though, things like this don't just accidentally happen. But it does happen. But crime, it is like cancer, it spreads, and people get involved without even how or why it started. It consumes peoples lives, and sometimes they find out way to late to do anything about it. But there were no consequences for me, I have need to sugarcoat it. I'm free to go in any direction I wish, and I'm very lucky for that. And just because I used to be involved in criminal activity, doesnt mean I have no morals. Have any of you ever been to O'Hare Air Port in Chicago? O'Hare's father did dirty work for Capone, as his lawyer.(dont tell me you think lawyers are good people) O'hare's father eventually turned away from the corruption and turned on Capone and played a key role in putting him away. The lawyers son went into the military and was an outstanding Navy pilot. He was cited the Medal of Honor for his actions in combat. As soon as O'hare's parents were divorced, he went to the Academy, but his parents did raise him right. And so did mine.

Are there victims from what I did? God yes. Am I responsible?

Are the gun manufactures responsible? No. Are retail gun sellers responsible? No. Suppressors are legal. Are those manufacturerers responsible? No.
If a drug company makes a drug and it kills the people who its prescribed to, are they responsible? YES! If I sold someone cocaine and they shot it up and died, police found out and had proof I sold it to him, would I be charged with murder? YES! Would I be convicted? Maybe. But, lets say someone dies from taking Valium, is the company responsible. No. Because the person had to of overdosed on it or drink a bunch of alcohol with all those pills. The responsibility was in the hands of the user of the valium, not the companies.
Illict drug users are responsible for their own use. I never knew who any of this stuff was going to, just like drug companies dont know who any there drugs are going. Both legal and illegal drugs fall into the hands of responsible users, and they both fall into the hands of children and junkies. So am I responsible? I'm sure the majority say yes. But I never met any dissapointed end users, nor did I hear of any deaths. I would not have claimed responsibility, just like a drug company would have done. Its not the drug companies fault. Its the users. When a person gets busted with valium and no prescription, do police make the same effort the find the seller as they do when someone gets busted with MDMA? More people abuse valium than MDMA, therefore its more of a widespread problem, right? And the children, would somebody THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! LOL. Children get targeted by drug dealers. Im sure the low-life ones do. But I never have...have I? 18 year olds don't get targeted because they are young and vulnerable and fall to peer pressure easy, they get targeted because, one: 18 year old don't have badges, two: they are usually in a state of experimentation, and three: they have reached the universal age of sufferage and are responsible for their own actions.

My point is, the question of responsibility has to be answered on a case by case basis, therefore, you can't tell me what I'm responsible for and what I'm not. You can say Im responsible for my own actions, but not the actions of others. I know what I'm responsible for. So yes, you are right, I did reason there were no real victims, because those people are responsible for their own actions. Had they not got it from me or one of my dealers, they would have got it elsewhere, just like a gun. If they were too drunk to get the bullets at a pawn shop they would have purchased them at Wal-Mart.

Living in a real world, to call a spade a spade. Well, reality is only a matter of perception, and we all preceive things differently. Abortion or Anti-Abortion? Obama or McCain? Sweetend or Un-sweetend? Do we need more Law Enforcement or do we live in a Police-State? Everyone in the "War on Drugs", has a different perception, and since neither side will never really win, those differences will always remain. Both Law Enforcement and Drug Manufacturers will continue to do what they do, even when it seems as if there is nothing left. One side will be doing better than the other, then the power will shift to the other side for a while. Its the Laws of Nature, it will always balance itself, and both will always exist.

The bolded part above pretty much tells anyone everything they need to know about you... The rest of what you wrote is pretty much gibberish reflecting the same thing... Welcome to ignore... :click: :rolleyes:

[holdencaulfield]

Opinion and preference don't make reality. I can opine that gnomes and time travel are real, but that doesn't make it so. Everyone is in fact responsible for what they do in life, and the results of bad behavior are real. Anyone abused as a child can tell you that. Some bad choices affect both others and ourselves in terrible ways we probably won't ever know, whether we happen to be on the winning side or not. The fact that both sides exist does not imply that both sides SHOULD exist...and the "shoulds" are after all the whole point of ethics.

I said perception, not preference. And both sides do exist, because both sides are part of nature. Drugs use is part of our history as humans, From both religion to culture. So is Law Enforcement, ever since men have governed men, and chief's overlooked their villages. They are both ancient, and they have both evolved in the modern world. Would you take Peyote from an Indian, or take the hash pipe out of the mouth of a man in Amsterdam? Drugs laws are relaxed in many countries, they still have a place in culture. Its not their preference, its there perception of reality that the drug has a use in their culture. If you don't think certain sides should'nt exist, consult mother nature. She will dictate if it should exist.

Drugs has it good sides and bad sides. And so does our Government stucture. But they both exist together. Nothing can change that. Its like saying you want to stop war and disease from ever happening again, it cant happen.

[holdencaulfield]

So Samuel, your telling me Capone's Lawyer had no moral's. Look at the way he raised his children. He was the key person on taking down Al Capone.
People who have a criminal background can have morals. People can change.

Ha, do you seriously work for L.A.P.D.
Is it L.A.P.D. county sherriffs department, or another area of California.
Thats great! It so steriotypical.
You know, the whole, just assume they are guilty and beat them with batons on the sidewalk thing like they show on T.V. Just like you assumed something and did not read the whole post and called the rest gibberish.

[holdencaulfield]

If I'm not welcome here, then maybe a moderator should drop me a line and I'll go. Im not here to start trouble.

[canuckofapeach]

First, as per the site's TOS, any and all references to persons who are advocates of illegal drugs, their acceptance and usage, personal or otherwise, is a topic that is not permitted.

Second, while you needed to stimulate that cerebellum g-spot of yours and have been urging us to think harder and faster to keep up with your super ego, please do not forget that all mental masturbation - especially yours - should be done in private.

How we would love to hear of your intricate processes to achieve didactic nirvana... removing your scalp, exposing the brain, and lubricating it with Vaseline, or I would assume you would prefer Easy-Glide. You must slather a lot of it to avoid any chaffing and please don't forget the Kleenex to absorb all that goop from those exquisite intellectual orgasms that ensue. Surely it's like nectar from Narcissus himself.

If I smoked cigarettes, I'd be puffing on one just about now, while bathing in your afterglow.

Thank you for the dance. We are closing now, as I see your dance card is full and all of your questions have been answered.