Bachelors + Masters = Federal Position?

[silentex]

I'm almost positive this position has been beat to death. In fact, I'm sure I'll probably be struck with a stick for even presenting this question . . . But, to my defense, I searched and got nothing :D

As it stands, I'm currently a Junior at Lamar University in Beaumont, TX. I'll be finishing up my Bachelors of Science in Criminal Justice. My intentions, from there, are to attend Sam Houston State University to get my MBA in Business Administration.

All of this, of course, without any prior military service. I say this only because I'll be looking into Federal Law Enforcement jobs. At the moment, I have no particular agency that I'm favoring, but I would like to stick inside the federal realm. I would probably say either: ATF, FAMS (or something else with ICE), US Marshal's, etc.

And, currently, I have no training in a foreign language . . . Though, I do plan on taking courses in either an Arabic dialect, or a Russian dialect.

My question is, what are the chances of me getting hired with a B.S. in CJ and an MBA in Business Administration? I'm quite aware that Prior Military is the essential way to get into these fields, but you guys know much more than me.

Any input and/or recommendations would be very welcome! Thank you in advance

[Switchback]

Military is not essential to get into federal LE, although it is very helpful. However, it is no more helpful thanLE experience.

Also, I know of very few people with masters in fed LE. I am speaking in terms of my experience with 1811s, which tend to be the most highly sought-after fed LE positions.

Most people have LE or military experience... or both, along with a BS.

[silentex]

I must ask, why are Master's so rare? Is there any particular reason? A pro, a con?

I am very aware that experience is key, but as anyone, I'm simply over-excited by the idea of IMMEDIATELY getting into the particular department that I'd like.

Of course, I realize this is a very long shot, but I feel I can leap over any obstacle presented.

(I'll assume, by experience, you're referring to Local LE jobs and things of that sort?)

[Switchback]

Immediately getting into a department? Aren't you planning on pursuing a masters?

I think the majore reason that masters are so rare is that many find the time that they would be spending getting the masters better spent getting experience.

[silentex]

I'm referring to once I graduate with my MBA.

I am very determined to get my Masters as it seems appropriate with the way that education requirements are headed. Along with that, I don't want to be stuck in a creek where I wish I had jumped the boat.

The MBA program that I am interesting in going into is a 36 hour degree. Which would take me a little over a year.

[Switchback]

Well, if the masters is so appropriate, then why are there so few in fed LE? :D Why is it that I it counts so little in promotion packages for most of the fed LE jobs that I know? If you want to teach, go for it! Hell, get your PhD.

I'll tell you the same thing I would tell people training for a fit test. Train for the job. For most federal LE, that means experience and/or military WITH an education (BS). Sure, you will meet the requirements with a lot less... but getting hired into the highly coveted 1811 slot is not about jut meeting the requirements.

Seriously, you MAY be able to slide into one of the desk-jockey, fraud type agencies (OIGs) with your MBA. It pays the same. You may have a chance with the FAMs, but you won't be doing much in the way of investigations... and that is a tough road with them (there are a few on here who can speak more to that).

[silentex]

I wasn't attempting to spark a debate. I, personally, feel very strongly regarding obtaining my Master's. Whether its required, or not, it's something that I'd like to do. It will provide quite a few things for me:

1) If I decide that Law Enforcement is not what I'd like to do, I have a very well cushioned back up plan.

2) Give me the state of mind that I did more than required.

As you said, I'm not attempting to simply squeeze by. It isn't my intention to simply go under the radar and achieve the world with my almighty Master's degree. I'm simply seeking input and suggestions.

But, with that being said, I'm well aware that you know much more regarding this issue than I do. And, that's why I come to you for help.

And, experience, we are talking local law enforcement jobs or what? I'm still very young, I'm 20 to be exact. I will have my Bachelor's before I turn 22 and hopefully have my Master's before I turn 24.

How many years of experience are generally looked for? I'm sorry I'm filled with questions, but you guys are awesome. I'm simply a little under that bar ;)

[Kimble]

I wasn't attempting to spark a debate. I, personally, feel very strongly regarding obtaining my Master's. Whether its required, or not, it's something that I'd like to do.

So then get you're master's degree. I don't see where anyone here stated you shouldn't. No need to preach to us the importance of a MS/MA, as some of us have them, and have found out first hand in what capacity they are beneficial, and in what areas they give no real advantage.

It will provide quite a few things for me:

1) If I decide that Law Enforcement is not what I'd like to do, I have a very well cushioned back up plan.

2) Give me the state of mind that I did more than required.

Again, you're preaching to the choir, so to speak, here. We already realize this. You asked if a MS would be beneficial for federal LE, and your question was answered. Take it from someone who got his MS with no prior experience, and was turned away from several LE agencies (federal, state and local) before getting into this field full-time, a master's does NOT out-weigh experience, period.

And, experience, we are talking local law enforcement jobs or what?

LE experience can be gained in local, state or federal. If not an agent position in the federal system, there are many uniformed LE positions, such as CBP Officer, Border Patrol Agent, officers with USSS Uniformed Division, US Capital Police, US Park Police, etc.

How many years of experience are generally looked for? I'm sorry I'm filled with questions, but you guys are awesome. I'm simply a little under that bar

As someone who has been on the interviewee of several federal and local LE interviews, I can say the general consensus I see is at least 2 years, but preferably 5+. If you start out at 24 - 25, that would give you plenty of time before reaching the mandatory age in many federal LE positions (37 yoa).

Good luck.

[ROME]

So then get you're master's degree. I don't see where anyone here stated you shouldn't. No need to preach to us the importance of a MS/MA, as some of us have them, and have found out first hand in what capacity they are beneficial, and in what areas they give no real advantage. Again, you're preaching to the choir, so to speak, here. We already realize this. You asked if a MS would be beneficial for federal LE, and your question was answered. Take it from someone who got his MS with no prior experience, and was turned away from several LE agencies (federal, state and local) before getting into this field full-time, a master's does NOT out-weigh experience, period.
LE experience can be gained in local, state or federal. If not an agent position in the federal system, there are many uniformed LE positions, such as CBP Officer, Border Patrol Agent, officers with USSS Uniformed Division, US Capital Police, US Park Police, etc.

As someone who has been on the interviewee of several federal and local LE interviews, I can say the general consensus I see is at least 2 years, but preferably 5+. If you start out at 24 - 25, that would give you plenty of time before reaching the mandatory age in many federal LE positions (37 yoa).

Good luck.

Listen up buddy because these fellas have good points and experience. A MS or MBA will serve you good, it helps, but why not just apply to a FLE job after completing your BS? Might as well. The process is long, after you apply just begin your MBA. You will be looking at a yr to 2yrs before you see the end of your hiring process and that's if you make it that far. It's not as big of a deal as you are making it. I to do believe that graduate education is important, but so is experience. I can match ROS by saying that I not only did I have a MS but also military experience and I was turned down by a few agencies a while back. Finish up your BS, put in application to a FLE agency and start your MS. As far as the time commitment that was mentioned earlier, I'm sure that's a big reason why some guys don't have graduate degrees. But take a good look at the online programs.

[North Patrol]

LE experience can be gained in local, state or federal. If not an agent position in the federal system, there are many uniformed LE positions, such as CBP Officer, Border Patrol Agent, officers with USSS Uniformed Division, US Capital Police, US Park Police, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Border Patrol Agents "Agents in the Federal System"?

Just a little pet peave of mine and way off topic. Sorry for the thread hijack.

[Kimble]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Border Patrol Agents "Agents in the Federal System"?

It's in the BPA's title, so I would argue so, but most of the general public reserve it for the 1811-variety agents... but not me, dude. ;)

[silentex]

Whoa, I apologize if it seems as though I was trying to start some sort of war.

I respect everyones opinions and welcome them because, to be honest, I'm clueless when it comes to these things. That's why I'm here ;)

Another option I have is what some of the local schools call "weekend warrior" programs. Essentially you're employed on a full-time basis but attend school on the weekends. I suppose that could be a good idea, as well.

As to the applying for a FLE job after I complete my BS, I feel it's a good idea . . . but, how beneficial would experience + my masters be as compared to my bachelors when the application is submitted and my master's when I get hired? I'm not trying to be "smart," I'm actually very curious.

Thanks guys.

[Kimble]

As to the applying for a FLE job after I complete my BS, I feel it's a good idea . . . but, how beneficial would experience + my masters be as compared to my bachelors when the application is submitted and my master's when I get hired? I'm not trying to be "smart," I'm actually very curious.

Not sure why you're apologizing, as I don't think you offended anyone, nor do I think any of your responses are "smart" (uninformed, sure, but not at all inappropriate).

To answer your question, it depends. Depends on entirely what you bring to the table with your experience. Sure, having an advanced degree and experience (LE or otherwise) looks great on paper, but how well will you do during the interviews? Does your experience include skills a particular agency is looking for (ex: big difference between doing patrol LE and doing cyber crime investigations). Not to say one experience is better than another, but simply put, some skills are more desirable to one agency, while perhaps not so much to another, particularly in the fed system. Also, how do you stack up to other applicants and their credentials?

We can't foretell these issues, but suffice to say having a MS/MA and experience won't hurt you, but how much it will help you can really only be answered by the future hiring agency, and what their needs are at that hiring phase.

[silentex]

Awesome! A very straight forward and informative answer. I'm very appreciative you took the time to write that out.

Although, I do have one more question. As I had originally stated, I'm looking to get my M.B.A. Are there any other degrees that would better benefit me? (Political Science, International Affairs, etc.)

Thanks

[Lost Texan]

Get your MBA, it is a great degree to earn. From the CBP perspective, I can tell you that there are probably three to five new personnel in each class with a Masters degree. An MBA can certainly help you in the future if you chose to go into a management position. While it is true that for starting or application purposes it doesn't make a large money difference, if those you are competing against have Bachelors, you are in better shape. Certainly there are many other factors, but there is no detriment to having higher education. Best of luck to you.

LT