Bachelors + Masters = Federal Position?

[silentex]

Awesome, you guys have been fantastic! I appreciate all of the feedback and you've helped me tremendously!

I do have one last question. I assume it isn't an issue to pursue more than one federal job at a time? Go through the process with two different agencies as the time span is quite drastic and the likelihood of me getting hired "anywhere" is very slim?

Thanks :D

[Lost Texan]

You would be joining a very extensive club. Most applying for federal jobs have more than one application going.

LT

[Stan Switek]

The most important step is to get hired ASAP to start building seniority, your pension, deferred comp & getting time in grade so you can move up to the next pay grade. An MBA is great. Given a choice between getting hired or going for an MBA, I'd get hired then pursue your MBA. Depending on the agency that hires you, not working those 2 years could cost you $100,000 or more in pay plus many thousands in your deferred compensation plan. You would also be 2 years older when you qualify for you pension. Think about it.

[oswaldcobblepot]

I'm not a FLE, but after talking to a FBI recruiter as to what they are looking for now, he was saying they are big on language skills(list of the six or seven they want is online) and lower on education/local LE experience . Maybe that was just what this FO was saying,and has nothing to do with other Fed jobs or other FOs want; I don't know.

[Kimble]

I'm not a FLE, but after talking to a FBI recruiter as to what they are looking for now, he was saying they are big on language skills(list of the six or seven they want is online) and lower on education/local LE experience . Maybe that was just what this FO was saying,and has nothing to do with other Fed jobs or other FOs want; I don't know.

The FBI, as the largest federal LE agency, also has the most applicants. As such, they can afford to be very picky in what they want in applicants. Also, their director came out with a 10 priorities list a few years back, which serves as the focal point for what they recruit.

What the FBI looks for may or may not represent what other federal LE agencies look for. Just because FBI isn't as keen on hiring former local/state LEOs as they are accountants, linguists and cyber programmers by no means this is the case for Secret Service, DEA, ATF, ICE or the other dozens of federal agencies.

[teegray1124]

I went to lamar University, also graduated with a B.S in Cj in december. I assume you know Dr. Jordan, Love and frisbie. Try talking to Jordan about this because he has a lot of knowledge.

[BP348]

If you’re set on getting the MBA then do it. But I would recommend that you start applying for the positions you want after you get your B.S. to at least get the ball rolling.

Almost all the 1811's I know have a BS degree very few have a masters. I even know of one ICE 1811 who was 6 hours short of his BS when he was hired and he still hasn’t completed his BS, as far as I know he has no plans to go back. Why should he?

Of the BPA's I know about a little less than half have a BS (seems to be more people joining with degrees than when I joined) and I think I've met less than 5 that had a masters.

Education is one of those things that you have to do for yourself. My bachelors didn't help me in USBP and when I get my masters next year it won't help me anymore than the BS did. But it will give me a lot of personal satisfaction and that's what counts.


Lamar U. Don't you guy's have a crazy female professor up there? We had a couple of people who came back from a conference in New Mexico during spring break and all they could talk about was the crazy feminists professor from Lamar.

[da_abstract_1]

I meet many FED LEOs in my profession and have found that in FED law enforcement, a Masters is almost the standard to get into an 1811 position off of the street. Unless, one has investigative experience, specialized experience (i.e. military special ops, langauage capabilities), or sought after bachelor's degree majors like, IT, computer science, or accounting. This is the new hiring trend in the FED, period. With more people going to get Masters and even Doctorates, it is the new standard and the competition is very stiff. One of my business professors stated once that a high school diploma 20 years ago, would afford you the same opportunities and pay that a bachelors degree will today, respectively.

[Switchback]

I meet many FED LEOs in my profession and have found that in FED law enforcement, a Masters is almost the standard to get into an 1811 position off of the street. Unless, one has investigative experience, specialized experience (i.e. military special ops, langauage capabilities), or sought after bachelor's degree majors like, IT, computer science, or accounting. This is the new hiring trend in the FED, period. With more people going to get Masters and even Doctorates, it is the new standard and the competition is very stiff. One of my business professors stated once that a high school diploma 20 years ago, would afford you the same opportunities and pay that a bachelors degree will today, respectively.

BEEEEEEEP..... TRY AGAIN.

While you may meet many feds, I am one. I have worked with feds from many agencies. While what you are saying is a bonus, it is not necessarily that accurate. VERY FEW 1811s have masters. I travel a TON (come in contact with a ton of our 1811s and those in other agencies all over the country) and can count the number of 1811s with Master's degrees on 1 hand. In fact, I know more locals with Masters than feds... they get advanced degrees trying to be Chiefs and such.

FYI, I was hired off the street with NO police experience, a degree in an unrelated (not sought-after at the time) field, and National Guard experience (a couple grunt MOSes and ROTC... but nothing "special").

Today's hirees are no different.

[Kimble]

While you may meet many feds, I am one.

Ditto, and I'd have to agree with Switch. From what I've seen here at FLETC, where current, new hirees for 1811 jobs come for their initial training (except, of course, FBI, DEA and USPIS) the majority have specialized experience, not master's degrees. Sorry, da, but the info you're passing out is incorrect. Those you've met in your experience
may have MS degrees, but to say that the majority of new hires for 1811 jobs have MS degrees from what I'm seeing here at the black hole that consumes new hires does not jive with that claim.

[basher52]

I wasn't attempting to spark a debate. I, personally, feel very strongly regarding obtaining my Master's. Whether its required, or not, it's something that I'd like to do. It will provide quite a few things for me:

1) If I decide that Law Enforcement is not what I'd like to do, I have a very well cushioned back up plan.

2) Give me the state of mind that I did more than required.

As you said, I'm not attempting to simply squeeze by. It isn't my intention to simply go under the radar and achieve the world with my almighty Master's degree. I'm simply seeking input and suggestions.

But, with that being said, I'm well aware that you know much more regarding this issue than I do. And, that's why I come to you for help.

And, experience, we are talking local law enforcement jobs or what? I'm still very young, I'm 20 to be exact. I will have my Bachelor's before I turn 22 and hopefully have my Master's before I turn 24.

How many years of experience are generally looked for? I'm sorry I'm filled with questions, but you guys are awesome. I'm simply a little under that bar ;)

Seeking higher education is never a bad thing. The best FED's were Real Police (COPS) before becoming a FED. I would continue pursuing your Masters degree, as I can see it means alot to you (back up plan). However, if you can snare a LEO position while doing so, you will have hit the Triple Crown.

[da_abstract_1]

Ros and Switch, perhaps I was not as clear in my post as I though I was, in regards to having a Masters and 1811's. The point that I was trying to make is that today, lets say the DEA, NCIS, or ICE were to open an announcement for entry level 1811's (GS 5/7), what I am saying is that to be competitive for these positions, (remember that usually when they announce 1811 positions there are normally 5000 applicantions for roughly 250-500 slots) who would would hiring managers most want to see in the pool of candidates? Those with critical skills, and those with education above a bachelors(as a bachelors is a prerequisite for most if not all 1811's) and most applicants will have those skills and education, as more people are going for their Masters. When they run out Masters and critical skills candidates then they start to look at other applicants, respectively. Post 9/11 LE has changed the "needs of the agency" to where the job is much more technical and requires new skill sets and education, from say a decade ago. Those who are luky enough to be at the right place at the right time more power to you. I will agree that it is more common for local PD's to place value on education and I also know for a fact that the all the chiefs and assistant chiefs where I live have Doctorates. Sorry for the long post.

[Switchback]

Perhaps I was not clear in MY post:

Uh... I AM an 1811. I also come in contact with a lot of applicants. Those being hired who possess a Masteers degree are few and far between. I would assume that those being hired would be in the "most competitive" category. :rolleyes:

By all means, continue to make yoruself a more attractive candidate. However, don't think that the advanced degree is that much of a benefit. You, da_abstract_1, are putting too much weight on it... from your vast experience in the field. ACTUALLY BEING IN THE FIELD, we are speaking to how it really is. It's those with a bachelors degree AND street experience making the cut... it is those that also tack on military experience that are cream of the crop.

I think, da_abstract_1, while your intentions are good, you are speaking out of your a$$. Your CJ classes are a far cry from the street. Perhaps there will be a time when the masters degree will have the weight in the hiring process that you are giving it, but it will be no time soon. There just isn't a trend supporting it.

[da_abstract_1]

Speaking out of my arse- perhaps
but I do inject facts in my ramblings also. All I am trying to say is that a MA/MS is looked upon highly by FED LE, and LE period, and just because its not required today, does not mean that it won't be required in the future.

Simply put what does Joe Schmo bring to the table, and this question varies from person to person. For instance, the FBI will take a person with a computer science degree, and 2 years general experience any day over a decorated beat cop, with a BS degree in CJ. It's a fact, that is one example, (I was that beat cop and in no way intend to diminish the position) of how "needs of the agency" vary from department to department.

Each agency places an emphasis on skills it thinks applicants need to do well in their field. An applicant may be able to skip local LE or military experience if they have a MA/MS with some agencies.

However, one should be well rounded when considering Law Enforcement. Military, BS, MA/MS, Local/State LE, Foreign Language skill, Computer Science/IT, Accounting/Finance, in any combination will get you in the door with at least a BS being a constant. If you can get a that MA/MS do it, its not required but it will help you in the long run, and in your career.

[Kimble]

Speaking out of my arse- perhaps

Perhaps? Dude, I'm not trying to single you out or be an @ss, but what you're posting doesn't jive with the real 1811 world. Your limited view into the 1811 world, maybe, but your view in and the handful of 1811's you've met isn't an overall, macro-level view of all 1811 hiring. Switch IS an 1811. He HAS worked in the processing of applicants. I AM an 1811 (a newly-annointed one, but still one, nonetheless) and HAVE been an APPLICANT within in the past year. I HAVE sat through two basic federal LE academies, and the MAJORITY of those I've met have SPECIALIZED SKILLS, i.e. EXPERIENCE. True, some like myself have MS degrees, but even still, those of us who have the MS/MA didn't get the job because of it alone. I applied out of grad school (as did another classmate in my add-on) and was turned down by my hiring agencies. It was the specialized skills I went out an attained after getting out of grad school that got me hired, period. Does a MS/MA look more attractive than a BS/BA? Yes. Are there agencies out there that hire 1811's straight out of grad school? Yes, but the overwhelming MAJORITY they hire are those with experience, and there's far more agencies that turn graduate degrees alone down for applicants with the desired skill sets they need.

All I am trying to say is that a MA/MS is looked upon highly by FED LE, and LE period

No one is arguing that, but let's not switch the topic of this thread. It was never "is a masters degree a desireable credential for LE/FLE", but rather, "Bachelors + Masters = Federal" (i.e. education alone, minus relevant work experience).

FBI will take a person with a computer science degree, and 2 years general experience any day over a decorated beat cop, with a BS degree in CJ.

And the Bureau tends to have a certain reputation among other LE agencies due to this. Doesn't mean that the way ALL FLE agencies operate or hire.

It's a fact, that is one example, (I was that beat cop and in no way intend to diminish the position) of how "needs of the agency" vary from department to department.

Again, no one is arguing that with you.

Each agency places an emphasis on skills it thinks applicants need to do well in their field. An applicant may be able to skip local LE or military experience if they have a MA/MS with some agencies.

There are far more applicants with relevant job experience who get hired than those with a MS/MA alone that do. True, it happens. I sat in CITP with an ICE agent who was straight out of grad school, and another straight out of undergrad college. However, that still doesn't mean the majority of hirees have experience over education, or a combination of the two rather than just education alone.