Immigration 101 for Dummies

[Big Sexy]

Mind you, BIG is not an immigration attorney, nor does he claim to be an immigration expert. He has however, utilized and applied immigration law, both the administrative side and criminal side, for the last soon to be 14 years. There are others on the board, such as Sparty, who BIG is aware may answer these questions just as accurately, if not more accurately than BIG and BIG will gladly bow to their expertise.

BIG received a PM from one of our esteemed members, who posed a few immigration related questions to BIG. These questions were brought about due to the lawsuits concerning Senator Obama's citizenship. BIG figured he'd post the questions, accompanied by the appropriate answers here for all of the RP public to see.

My grasp at u.s. citizenship is you are born here than you are a citizen.

Yes, unless you are the child of someone who is in possession of an "A" visa, which is an Ambassador. U.S. citizenship is obtained utilizing the law of "Jus Soli" (Right of Soil). The Constitution makes citizens of all persons born in the United States, provided they are subject to U.S. jurisdiction at the time of their birth - that is, they are not the children of foreign diplomats and like persons who, having diplomatic immunity, are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction while they are in the country for diplomatic purposes.

An illegal give birth here and that kid is a citizen and parent stays.

The child is a USC, (see above Jus Soli), but that doesn't automatically transfer into the parent gaining any status, which would allow them to remain here. You cannot deport a USC, but you can deport the parent/s.

Marry a citizen and stay in the country.

No. One would still have to apply for either an immigrant visa to enter the U.S., or an adjustment of status of whatever status they are, if already present in the U.S. Once again, marrying a USC doesn't authomatically bestow any special status on the non-USC. They DO NOT become USC's by virtue of marriage to a USC, that's only in the movies. They can become lawfully admitted permanenet residents, (LAPRs), but if married for under two years they'd be conditional LAPRs. If they fail to apply to have the conditions removed or commit a deportable offense, they will put into deportation proceedings, held by an Immigration Judge (IJ).

Come here through embassy or consulate and go through the motions and get citizenship.

No one obtains their citizenship through a U.S. Consulate or Embassy. Either a foreign born USC, think of military kids born outside the U.S., registers at the Consulate/Embassy or a foreign national applies for an immigrant or non-immigrant visa via the Consulate/Embassy.

A u.s. citizen gives birth lets say in mexico, then the kid wouldn't be a citizen of mexico?

That would depend on the laws of Mexico. The child would however derive citizenship via the USC parent/s and would be a USC. It is known as the law of "Jus Sanginues" (Right of Blood) by which nationality or citizenship is not determined by place of birth, but by having an ancestor who is a national or citizen of the state.

The formality of going to a consulate or embassy doesn't have to be reached to have the kid be a us citizen?

Not to BIGs understanding. If a child derives citizenship, then the child derives it. From what BIG has been taught, the Consulates/Embassy or a none factor. if one can prove they are the child of a USC and that USC acknowledges that child as theirs, then the child would derive citizenship.

The argument against obama is his school records show he's a citizen of indonesia, wouldn't he have to go through the embassy or consulate or immigration when he gets back to the u.s. and get u.s. citizenship?

BIG doesn't know Indonesia's laws concerning citizenship. Whether they recognize dual citizenship, as does Canada, Ireland, Israel and Great Britain, to name a few, but the U.S. does not. Regardless, whether Indonesia does or doesn't, did or didn't, it's irrelevant to whether he would derive citizenship from his USC parent, as far as U.S. immigration law is concerned.

Born in hawaii doesn't add up according to Berg and it is true that one of obama's parents is a u.s. citizen but he doesn't want to reveal the actual certificate.

If he was born in Hawaii, then he's a USC. If he wasn't, he still derived U.S. citizenship. In either scenario, he'd be a USC. Honestly, the only controversies BIG has ever heard about Senator McCain not being a USC, due to his being born in the Panama Canal Zone or Senator Obama not being a USC is here on the forums. have never heard any "controversy" mentioned by any of the other media outlets. Senator McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it was a U.S. territory, which would make him a U.S. National but not a US citizen. Think America Samoa. They're U.S. Nationals, but not U.S. citizens, hence unable to vote or run for the presidency.

But since both of Senator McCains parents are/were USC's he derived it, regardless of what territory he was born. be it Panama, China or Indonesia.

Help me understand u.s. citizenship rules if I'm off.

In a nutshell, you've been given the simplified version of immigration law. Hopefully things are now as clear as mud. ;)

[pafindr]

Great post!
I vote to make this one a sticky.

[sparty]

Great post, Big. It looks like you got everything right on. I don't know how many people I've sent home who either thought they were US citizens because they married one or who thought they could just come and live here because they married a US citizen. I had a permanent resident a couple of weeks ago who couldn't understand why I was sending his new wife home. After all he had passed the test to become a citizen and he had their marriage license which was all that was needed for us to let her in - or so he thought.

I'd rep you but it seems I've got to spread the love around.:mad:

[InTheEnd]

Excellent post. That clears up the misconceptions.

[1depd]

Perhaps Big or Sparty could clear something up. I thought national status was only given is certain situations, such as being born on Swains Island or American Samoa, not necessarily by being born in a territory, such as Guam or Puerto Rico. Is that correct?

[Taxx]

Excellent post! With all that cleared up can you think of any other way we can get Senator Obama disqualified?

[janego10]

You dont have to tell me twice about the married to a US citizen thing..I just paid $675.00 bucks to send off my wife's paperwork for US citizenship. Maybe i'm doing something wrong or didnt do my research but doesnt being the daughter of American citizens, (alas my wife was born in Mexico) the wife of an American citizen and serving honorably in the US Army at least give us a damn discount?????

[Big Sexy]

Perhaps Big or Sparty could clear something up. I thought national status was only given is certain situations, such as being born on Swains Island or American Samoa, not necessarily by being born in a territory, such as Guam or Puerto Rico. Is that correct?

A person whose only connection to the U.S. is through birth in an outlying possession (which as of 2005 is limited to American Samoa and Swains Island), or through descent from a person so born acquires U.S. nationality but not U.S. citizenship. This was formerly the case in only four other current or former U.S. overseas possessions:

Guam (1898 - 1950) (Citizenship granted by an Act of Congress)

Philippines (1898 - 1935) (Granted independence in 1946; National status rescinded in 1935; Citizenship never accorded)

Puerto Rico (1898 - 1917) (Citizenship granted by an Act of Congress)

U.S. Virgin Islands (1917 - 1927) (Citizenship granted by an Act of Congress)

It is possible to be a U.S. national without being a U.S. citizen. Not all U.S. nationals are U.S. citizens; all U.S. citizens are U.S. nationals. The U.S. passport bio-page shows one’s status as either a citizen or a non-citizen national. Noncitizen U.S. nationals may reside and work in the United States without restrictions, and may apply for citizenship under the same rules as other resident aliens.

U.S. nationals who are not citizens cannot vote or hold elected office at the federal level. Depending on local laws and ordinances, they may or may not be able to do so at the State or Local level.

Clear as concrete. :D

[BP348]

I second or is it third the Excellent post ;)

I believe the contraversy stems from the fact that Obama attended school in Indonesia. From what I've read people are stating that the laws in Indonesia state that you must be a citizen of Indonesia to attend school in Indonesia.

The other argument I've heard other then that Obama's birth certificate is fake is that Obama's Mother is a US citizen and his father is from, little help here I can't remember where he's from. Anyway US Immigration laws states that when one parent is a foreign national and one parent is a USc then the child derives his/her US citizenship from the USC parent but there are restrictions placed upon that. The parent must have lived in the United States for a certain period of time after their 18th birthday. It's like 5 years. The problem for Obama is that people say that his Mother didn't meet the time requirement therefor Obama dosen't derive US citizenship from his mother.

welcome to USBP & CBPO academy 101. Does ICE have a section on Immigration law? I'm sure they do. This is stuff we (USBP) dosen't deal with that offten. I'll have to see if I can find my Imm & Natz law charts to get the exact time/s.

Clear as mud, right? :D

[MDEMT280]

You dont have to tell me twice about the married to a US citizen thing..I just paid $675.00 bucks to send off my wife's paperwork for US citizenship. Maybe i'm doing something wrong or didnt do my research but doesnt being the daughter of American citizens, (alas my wife was born in Mexico) the wife of an American citizen and serving honorably in the US Army at least give us a damn discount?????

If she's the daughter of American citizens, even if she's born in Mexico, she should be a USC, according to "jus sanginues..." Right?

I mean, isn't that basically the exact example Big gave? :confused:

[BP348]

If she's the daughter of American citizens, even if she's born in Mexico, she should be a USC, according to "jus sanginues..." Right?

I mean, isn't that basically the exact example Big gave? :confused:

That's correct. If the wife's parents are United States citizens then it dosen't matter where she was born, she drives US citizenship from her parents.

[Creeker]

You dont have to tell me twice about the married to a US citizen thing..I just paid $675.00 bucks to send off my wife's paperwork for US citizenship. Maybe i'm doing something wrong or didnt do my research but doesnt being the daughter of American citizens, (alas my wife was born in Mexico) the wife of an American citizen and serving honorably in the US Army at least give us a damn discount?????

Nahhh... my wife has worked at the Post Office damn near 24 years now, but we can't send anything for cheap or discount....

[Joeyd6]

BIG,

Can you come up with a written tests and certificate or something? As an 1881, I would think it might help me if I wanted to jump ship and join ICE. Since I have CITP, maybe your version would allow me not avoid ICESAT. Seems to take them 10 weeks to teach that!
:D

[MDEMT280]

That's correct. If the wife's parents are United States citizens then it dosen't matter where she was born, she drives US citizenship from her parents.

So it sounds like janego's wife should be good to go... unless the wife's parents weren't citizens for a long enough period of time? Or does that time restriction apply only if one parent is a foreign national?

[Big Sexy]

BIG,

Can you come up with a written tests and certificate or something? As an 1881, I would think it might help me if I wanted to jump ship and join ICE. Since I have CITP, maybe your version would allow me not avoid ICESAT. Seems to take them 10 weeks to teach that!
:D

Hell, Joey. That there what you've seen written, is the proud product of the U.S. Border Patrol Academy and not of ICE's. :D