My Thoughts:Israel....

[decuervo]

Do they have it right? Would a good solid fence do it all? Would that it were so easy. Chewy, and others, would have a hell of alot of work ahead to do it. (can you see Chewy lifting heavy concrete blocks?) Not gonna happen. Anyway, I still think it's a great idea even if they have to use outside help to do it. I wish I coul block traffic form my local MDC area and contain it. My area's only few blocks. Very busy. Imagine the Mussad and those other LEO's in Israel. Pray for them as we pray for each other's safety. Amen. The Hebrews have it right, build a wall and kill everything trying to get in illegally.

[Prometheus]

Actually, from what I've read, Israel and those on the outside depend on each other. My understanding goes like this:

The Israeli citizens are mostly a well educated bunch, and primarily hold jobs that reflect that- technicians, doctors, educators, and the like. There is a need for service type workers- people to clean their streets, wash their cars, pick fruit, etc. Those coming in from the outside are less skilled, and need a place to work, which Israel provides.

It is a symbiotic relationship that neither side likes or will acknowledge, but neither can do without, either.

Anyone else have a different take?

[TALLON]

I don't know that Israel NEEDS the "outside" workers, just as the U.S. doesn't NEED the illegal immigrant workers here. If those jobs were/are so vitally important to the day to day operations of running a country, then those jobs would offer an important and dignified wage. So I don't buy that argument here or over there.

Cleaning streets, picking fruit, or washing dishes is a minimum wage job. Perfectly acceptable employment for American high schoolers or those with limited skills. At my first ever job, I washed dishes when I was in junior high and high school. Like any job, when the boss saw that I had other talents, he asked me to wait tables. Translation: Advancement = More money. Albeit a meager advancement, but a taste of it none the less. My dishwashing and waiting stint was not designed to be a career, rather a job that taught me some important things about holding a job. Show up on time, dress appropriately, do what you say you're going to do, and don't sleep with the boss's daughter. Not the most glamourous of jobs, but they were all very important lessons.

I just don't buy the argument that in a country of 270 million with an aggravating amount of people receiving government assistance, we cannot find people willing to earn their own way doing an honest job.

[mxwelch]

Let a bunch of Mexicans start strapping bombs to themselves and hitting border towns and you'll see how fast a wall goes up.

[zmancarlvr]

Do they have it right? Would a good solid fence do it all? Would that it were so easy. Chewy, and others, would have a hell of alot of work ahead to do it. (can you see Chewy lifting heavy concrete blocks?) Not gonna happen. Anyway, I still think it's a great idea even if they have to use outside help to do it. I wish I coul block traffic form my local MDC area and contain it. My area's only few blocks. Very busy. Imagine the Mussad and those other LEO's in Israel. Pray for them as we pray for each other's safety. Amen. The Hebrews have it right, build a wall and kill everything trying to get in illegally.

I agree, but I have a feeling the Israeli's/Jews around the world really wish they didn't have to do that.... There have been numerous attempts at peace proposals and have all been literally blown to ****.

Anybody that wants to cry for the little sons of bitches that blow themselves up and who get 'needlessly shot' by the IDF for doing something they shouldn't should go stand in a crowded market or sit on a bus or any other NON MILITARY TARGET that gets blown up and we'll see how they feel then...

It is not very often you see people defend the Israelis... Thank you all.

Stay safe

-Z

[retdetsgt]

I don't know that Israel NEEDS the "outside" workers, just as the U.S. doesn't NEED the illegal immigrant workers here. If those jobs were/are so vitally important to the day to day operations of running a country, then those jobs would offer an important and dignified wage. So I don't buy that argument here or over there.

Then be prepared to pay a princely sum of money for all the stuff you take for granted. There aren't enough high school kids, etc to man all the minimum wage and agricultural jobs.

It's cool to talk about a "dignified" wage until you start paying 3-4 bucks a pound for tomatoes and that Big Mac is $6. Simple economics, higher wages are passed on the consumer.

[TALLON]

Then be prepared to pay a princely sum of money for all the stuff you take for granted. There aren't enough high school kids, etc to man all the minimum wage and agricultural jobs.

It's cool to talk about a "dignified" wage until you start paying 3-4 bucks a pound for tomatoes and that Big Mac is $6. Simple economics, higher wages are passed on the consumer.

That was my point, whether here or in Israel, they're not high skill jobs and those workers are paid accordingly; minimum wage.

If the tomatoes become that expensive, I'll grow them in my backyard. :D Never mind the $3 tomatoes, what about the millions and millions in health care, emergency room care, prenatal, post-natal, education, and incarceration costs that are all being passed to us right now because of these illegals? The real question is: Which pocket do you want to pay it from?

[retdetsgt]

If the tomatoes become that expensive, I'll grow them in my backyard. :D Never mind the $3 tomatoes, what about the millions and millions in health care, emergency room care, prenatal, post-natal, education, and incarceration costs that are all being passed to us right now because of these illegals? The real question is: Which pocket do you want to pay it from?

The everyday goods you buy I'm sure would surpass the other costs you mentioned, but it goes much farther than that. It would wipe out the farmers here because all foods would be imported, making us even more dependent on other countries. Only so much can be mechanized.

Your solution is a bit simplistic. A lot of industries here depend on cheap labor because if we can't get it here, we will have to get it through goods from other countries. Look how China has us in it's grip economically. Try a buy most any manufactored item that costs less than $10 and see where it's made. Dollars to donuts, it's made in China.

We've already lost the steel industry, ask anybody from Pittsburgh. We're pricing ourselves right out of the world market with high labor costs. People that are complaining about the unemployment and low wages also complain about the outsourcing of jobs. That's the result of high salaries. Why should any company pay $15 to $20 an hour for tech support here when they can pay someone who's first language isn't English $4.00. And the guy earning 4 bucks is living the good life in his country.

[TALLON]

Sarge, I hear ya. My point is: Minimum wage IS cheap labor. By definition, the cheapest legal wage allowable. If a farm cannot support the costs of doing business in America while paying their employees legal minimum wages, then unfortunately, their business may fall prey to the same uncertain outcome as many other small businesses in America. I'm not trying to appear cruel, but survival of the fittest comes to mind.

[retdetsgt]

If a farm cannot support the costs of doing business in America while paying their employees legal minimum wages, then unfortunately, their business may fall prey to the same uncertain outcome as many other small businesses in America. I'm not trying to appear cruel, but survival of the fittest comes to mind.

It may fall down to the survival of the fittest countries though. We are already up to our *** in foreign debt (China) and our trade deficit is through the roof. And most farms aren't really small businesses. The day of the small, independent farmer as already gone to the wayside. Most agricultural goods are grown here by corporations. They can fold up, but again, we have to buy from other nations. And food is one of our primary exports. We lose that and the deficit climbs more.

And it's just not the farms. When's the last time you bought an article of clothing that was made in the U.S.A.? I like making good money as much as anyone, but we can't stand alone in the world with our own private economy. And the rest of the world is killing us with low labor costs.

And I haven't even addressed productivity. They're building a lot of homes here in my town. I walk my dog through that area just about daily. It's striking to watch the Hispanic roofers and the Anglo ones. The Hispanic guys are almost running from one job to another when they work. The Anglo roofers are definitely paid by the hour! :rolleyes: