Polygraph / Future application process

[berniemack]

Hey,

Quick question for anyone who might have any insight. I'm 23 years old and have a Criminal Justice degree. Im from NJ where its pretty tough to get a job as a cop. My dream job was always to be an officer somewhere in the state whether it be state or municipal. Currently i have been looking into opportunities in Delaware.

Now to the point of my post. There is no Polygraph for employment in NJ, however there is in the depts i am applying for in DE. Overall i'm a good guy. My major dilemma was a few years ago i experimented with an anabolic steroid for 1 cycle. From what i understand the departments i have been in contact with in DE don't automatically disqualify for doing that.

My question is if i admit to this on the polygraph and i dont get the job, will this show up in background investigations in the future with departments in NJ? because NJ isnt nearly as open to this. I believe the state police disqualifies you if youve done it at all in the last 10 years.

any insight into this would be great...thanks

[ET109]

So you're asking for information to help you lie on background applications.

[Ispbear]

So you're asking for information to help you lie on background applications.

Yep, thats what I got. He wants to know if he should lie when applying in Delaware so it won't show up if he applies in New Jersey.

How about this, you don't apply to any place because your unfit to wear a badge. Problem solved!

[berniemack]

Yep, thats what I got. He wants to know if he should lie when applying in Delaware so it won't show up if he applies in New Jersey.

How about this, you don't apply to any place because your unfit to wear a badge. Problem solved!

Or i'm asking for advise because i don't want a dumb decision i made to mess up my employment chances for the next 7 or so years. But thanks for being extremely helpful anyway.

[Ispbear]

Hey,

Now to the point of my post. There is no Polygraph for employment in NJ, however there is in the depts i am applying for in DE. Overall i'm a good guy. My major dilemma was a few years ago i experimented with an anabolic steroid for 1 cycle. From what i understand the departments i have been in contact with in DE don't automatically disqualify for doing that.

My question is if i admit to this on the polygraph and i dont get the job, will this show up in background investigations in the future with departments in NJ? because NJ isnt nearly as open to this. I believe the state police disqualifies you if youve done it at all in the last 10 years.

any insight into this would be great...thanks

Look at your question, your saying there's no polygraph in NJ, but there is in DE. So if you admit to it in DE will NJ be able to find out about it. That only implies that you are considering applying to NJ and lying about it so you wont be DQ'd since they don't use the polygraph. Being truthful is the only option for any department you apply for and let the chips fall as they may. There is no place for any dishonesty in law enforcement, it is an ugly sign of weak moral character.

[MikeG]

Hey,

Quick question for anyone who might have any insight. I'm 23 years old and have a Criminal Justice degree. Im from NJ where its pretty tough to get a job as a cop. My dream job was always to be an officer somewhere in the state whether it be state or municipal. Currently i have been looking into opportunities in Delaware.

Now to the point of my post. There is no Polygraph for employment in NJ, however there is in the depts i am applying for in DE. Overall i'm a good guy. My major dilemma was a few years ago i experimented with an anabolic steroid for 1 cycle. From what i understand the departments i have been in contact with in DE don't automatically disqualify for doing that.

My question is if i admit to this on the polygraph and i dont get the job, will this show up in background investigations in the future with departments in NJ? because NJ isnt nearly as open to this. I believe the state police disqualifies you if youve done it at all in the last 10 years.

any insight into this would be great...thanks

You should answer 'yes' on the Delaware application and 'No' on the New Jersey application. Be sure to also list all departments you applied to. You can add a note to the bottom of the page explaining that you don't want to admit to illegal steroid use in New Jersey because it looks worse in New Jersey. If you explain it like this to the BI, they will understand exactly where you are coming from. In fact, make sure to say on the Delaware application that the only reason you answered 'Yes' was because you were afraid of the polygraph but once the polygraph is over, you will change your answer to 'No' if it ever comes up in court so you don't embarrass the department. The last thing any department needs is an officer admitting to steroid use on the stand. Especially when prosecuting someone for fighting with the police. They will be very happy to learn early in the process that you are so willing to protect yourself and the department from an embarrassing truth.

Please post your "Distinctly Qualified" letter when you receive it. Hopefully some of our eastern moderators have taken an interest in you and can fast track your evaluation.

P.S. Practice this scenario - your partner and you arrive at a fight and some guy going through roid rage attacks you and your partner. Your partner suffers a career ending injury. Defense attorney goes into 'roid rage and asks you if you have ever taken steroids and any answer you give contradicts one of the applications. You are the state's star witness after your partner was knocked unconscious. I'm sure your partner will understand why his attacker walked out of the courtroom as you push his wheelchair explaining how you needed that job and needed to look good.

[MikeG]

Or i'm asking for advise because i don't want a dumb decision i made to mess up my employment chances for the next 7 or so years. But thanks for being extremely helpful anyway.

Shorter answer: Lying is a dumber decision and will mess up your chances forever. The fact that you don't seem to grasp this means that your problem with decision making goes beyond a one time decision to use steroids. Asking the question shows a certain amoral contempt of the process. You are lacking a certain moral compass that is fundamental in law enforcement. Honor and integrity start with honesty. You are starting short of that. Let's put it this way: the honest person that admits to smoking marijuana five times will get a longer look and maybe a job offer. The single time smoker that lied about it is DQd forever.

[ET109]

Or i'm asking for advise because i don't want a dumb decision i made to mess up my employment chances for the next 7 or so years. But thanks for being extremely helpful anyway.

Is there some reason why we should try and help you get hired when there are 20 better candidates who aren't lying to get the job? Why would I want to have someone working with me or in my community who is dishonest? You may WANT to have not messed up your employment but you may have, and certainly will when you put pen to paper on department paperwork saying something you know isn't true.

My education was not in CJ, so maybe I'm missing out; do they teach about ethics in those classes?

[Joeyd6]

One year ago you are out, KNOWINGLY, and FREELY making a decision to do illegal drugs. And one year later you want to be a cop, and have the authority to go arrest those who do the same.

You want advice......go join the military and serve your country. When you are done with that, you will have hopefully provien you matured, make smart decision and are trustworthy.

[cg89]

hate to bump a old topic but I believe a lot of LEO's use anabolic steroids? What about the officers that use them as a active LEO? If you get educated about the topic you will see that "roid rage" is a myth and has never been scientifically proven. I am not saying that they don't enhance aggression yes they can but they don't turn a good guy into a crazy person who murders everyone they see. If your a ******* before you take them when your on them you will be a bigger *******...simple as that. Thats testosterone for you. Also would you like a 6'2 165lb partner or a 6'2 220lb partner to cover your *** if **** hits the fan...you decide.

[Citicop]

hate to bump a old topic but I believe a lot of LEO's use anabolic steroids? What about the officers that use them as a active LEO? If you get educated about the topic you will see that "roid rage" is a myth and has never been scientifically proven. I am not saying that they don't enhance aggression yes they can but they don't turn a good guy into a crazy person who murders everyone they see. If your a ******* before you take them when your on them you will be a bigger *******...simple as that. Thats testosterone for you. Also would you like a 6'2 165lb partner or a 6'2 220lb partner to cover your *** if **** hits the fan...you decide.

Where would you get the idea that "a lot of LEO's" use steroids? That is not true at all in my experience. Do you have a source?

I would rather have the skinnier guy who didn't use illegal drugs backing me up, period.

If you use illegal drugs, it's bad. If you use illegal drugs and then lie about it to get hired, it's worse. But when you use illegal drugs while sworn to uphold the law, it's pretty much as bad as it gets. I don't have any desire to work with someone who is committing felonies on a regular basis.

-Citicop.

[cg89]

Where would you get the idea that "a lot of LEO's" use steroids? That is not true at all in my experience. Do you have a source?

I would rather have the skinnier guy who didn't use illegal drugs backing me up, period.

If you use illegal drugs, it's bad. If you use illegal drugs and then lie about it to get hired, it's worse. But when you use illegal drugs while sworn to uphold the law, it's pretty much as bad as it gets. I don't have any desire to work with someone who is committing felonies on a regular basis.

-Citicop.

I don't have 15 posts yet so I can't post links but do a simple google search of "police and steroids" Here are some of the result titles.

I was always told steroids run ramped among LEO's because thats the truth look at the basic aspects of the job why wouldn't one want a edge when he/she puts their life on the line everyday? Not saying its right but it happens. What about our military, you think a lot of those guys aren't using anabolic steroids? please (not saying everyone,) why wouldn't you. Now big muscles can help you win a fight but at the end of the day you need a strong mind and willpower. Also what about police officers on TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) their taking daily or weekly dosages of testosterone which is a scheduled class III drug classified as a anabolic steroid.

And to say that someones past drug use (which happens to be a drug that isn't addictive,) makes them ineligible to become a LEO? Please theres a good amount of LEO's who used coke in their past, what about during ones teenage years where experimentation with marijuana comes into play? Does that make them unfit for the job? Or how about underage drinking? Lets be real here we all know the things we did when we were adolescents weren't our finest moments.

Illegal Steroid Use Among Police Officers 'a Big Problem'

Anabolic Steroids Blog – iSteroids.com » Police using steroids

Police Juice Up on Steroids to Get 'Edge' on Criminals - ABC News

Daily Kos: Steroid Abuse and Excessive Force by Police

Police & Steroids - Cops Buying Steroids with Your Tax Dollars ...

Anabolic Steroid Use and Abuse by Police Officers - Police Chief ...

[cg89]

sorry for double post but the percentage of police officers in the united states who use steroids is 25%.

[Citicop]

I was always told steroids run ramped among LEO's because thats the truth look at the basic aspects of the job why wouldn't one want a edge when he/she puts their life on the line everyday?

BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL, AND IT'S THE JOB OF THE POLICE TO UPHOLD THE LAW.

If you don't understand that concept, than this job is not for you. I'd rather work with an out of shape officer than one who is willing to break the law to "get an edge."

You know what might "give an officer and edge" in court? Lying in a report or planting evidence. But I would be against that too. That crap is illegal for a reason, and as cops we can't be expected to enforce the law if we can't uphold it ourselves.

I also dispute your claim that a lot of cops have tried cocaine. That's a disqualifying matter in almost every department I know of.

I said that I would not want to serve with someone who was CURRENTLY committing felonies on a regular basis, but the fact is I would be uncomfortable working with someone with a history of felonious behavior as well. Past behavior is indicative of future behavior. That's one reason why departments DQ for that.

And it's completely different if someone is taking a legally prescribed substance for a medical condition.

I don't think an officer who has ADD much of an issue getting hired if he's on medicine for it; but if someone wants to take Adderal or Ritalin illegally, then I don't want to work with them.

Departments often draw a line between minor/misdemeanor offenses in the past (like underage drinking and marijuana experimentation) and felonies like use of hard drugs or hallucinogens.

I am starting to believe (based on your posting) that you lack some of the ethical core necessary to be an effective Law Enforcement Officer.

-Citicop.

[Citicop]

sorry for double post but the percentage of police officers in the united states who use steroids is 25%.

Source?

EDIT:

I found THIS little tidbit from an article you linked to:

Victor Conte, founder of the now-defunct lab known as Bay Area Lab Co-Operative that supplied numerous athletes with steroids and other banned substances, said it wouldn't surprise him if as many as a quarter of police officers were using some kind of performance-enhancing drug.

One guy who says "it wouldn't surprise him" that 25% of cops were using steroids is not a source and has no more bearing than any number you choose to pull out of your ***.

I, on the other hand, would be stunned if the number was more than 5%.

If you want to find REAL sources to back your figures up (like verified studies and not some criminal who gave an interview with his opinion) then feel free to let us know.

-Citicop.