Stay Focused

[1811_bound]

Hello Everyone,

Been reading for awhile no and just registered. To all those people who have blemishes on their background.... don't give up. Stay focused. I read an article of the guy below and have been keeping track on his desire to join NYPD. He's the army vet who had a felony, that was pardoned, and wants to join NYPD. It sure would be nice if this guy can get hired. Talk about turning your life around..wow. I can't copy the link here because I don't have enough posts. It is REMOVED BY JOEYD AS IT IS A WEBSITE ADVERTISING LEGAL SERVICES AND A CASE THEY ARE WORKING ON.

[Joeyd6]

There is a reason you can't add links with no posts.......first time posters with links tend to link to inappropriate material. Rather than post to the numerous news articles, you posted a link to a company who provided legal services and is advertising theirs. Thus it was removed.

The case you are referring to has nothing to do with staying focused. If anything, it is nothing more than a lesson in that once you make decisions, you can continue and do great things, but you will still be held accountable for your actions and have to deal with such.

Your link is about Specialist Osvaldo Hernandez, U.S. Army, who at the age of 20, got caught in NYC with a handgun. An unlicensed and stolen handgun. He realized he was facing a felony conviction and took a plea, removing the criminal possession of a stolen weapon to merely criminal possession or a weapon, a misdemeanor. He was sentenced to one year and did 8 months.

He got out of jail and joined the U.S. Army where he eventually earned the Combat Infantryman Badge, two Army Commendation Medals and three Army Achievement Medals
E took such to trial and was found guilty.

He gets out of the Army, applies to numerous federal, state and local LEO jobs and was DENIED due to his criminal history. He was granted a pardon by the governor, however no agency would hire him, as he was arrested for a felony. He paid this "firm" you mentioned THOUSANDS to get that pardon. And after he got it, he is in the same place.

His service to the country is commendable, but it does not erase or mitigate what he did. It does not change who he was and what he could become in the future. He will never get a LE job. He has tried unsuccessfully for 8 years. He is now a plumber.

His life and actions should be a lesson to all. You make a bad decision, and you will have to pay the consequences for life. Good action/behavior following your bad choice does not erase what you did or entitle you to the job you want.

[1811_bound]

There is a reason you can't add links with no posts.......first time posters with links tend to link to inappropriate material. Rather than post to the numerous news articles, you posted a link to a company who provided legal services and is advertising theirs. Thus it was removed.

The case you are referring to has nothing to do with staying focused. If anything, it is nothing more than a lesson in that once you make decisions, you can continue and do great things, but you will still be held accountable for your actions and have to deal with such.

Your link is about Specialist Osvaldo Hernandez, U.S. Army, who at the age of 20, got caught in NYC with a handgun. An unlicensed and stolen handgun. He realized he was facing a felony conviction and took a plea, removing the criminal possession of a stolen weapon to merely criminal possession or a weapon, a misdemeanor. He was sentenced to one year and did 8 months.

He got out of jail and joined the U.S. Army where he eventually earned the Combat Infantryman Badge, two Army Commendation Medals and three Army Achievement Medals
E took such to trial and was found guilty.

He gets out of the Army, applies to numerous federal, state and local LEO jobs and was DENIED due to his criminal history. He was granted a pardon by the governor, however no agency would hire him, as he was arrested for a felony. He paid this "firm" you mentioned THOUSANDS to get that pardon. And after he got it, he is in the same place.

His service to the country is commendable, but it does not erase or mitigate what he did. It does not change who he was and what he could become in the future. He will never get a LE job. He has tried unsuccessfully for 8 years. He is now a plumber.

His life and actions should be a lesson to all. You make a bad decision, and you will have to pay the consequences for life. Good action/behavior following your bad choice does not erase what you did or entitle you to the job you want.

Actually from what I read he has not been denied a job with NYPD. He is still under character review. I opened the PDF and it has no advertisement whatsoever. Zero, zip, none. The pdf has a recommendation from a retired NYPD detective, an ADA, and a criminal court judge. The content of their words are why I thought some forum members may enjoy reading it; which you obviously did not take the time to do.

As far as what it has to do with staying focused... the man was convicted one day years ago; promised that he would be back to redeem himself, and did exactly that. From what I READ he also just returned from another tour abroad.

I'm guessing from what you have written you do not believe the guy deserves the chance to put the past behind him. I sure hope you are not a decision maker for the hiring with your agency.

[marinepilot]

Hmm, posting advertising first time out, no intro, arguing with a very senior moderator. I forsee you vanishing from this website rather quickly...

[1811_bound]

Hmm, posting advertising first time out, no intro, arguing with a very senior moderator. I forsee you vanishing from this website rather quickly...

The link, if typed into address bar, only opened a pdf file for reading or saving. No advertisement whatsoever. I'm not sure why that point is being missed.

I wasn't arguing with the person...just pointing out some inaccurate information. I enjoy the information that forums provide and, to be honest, don't feel strongly enough about the subject to argue on an online forum. The info about the guy is out there, but the pdf was good reading.

[pafindr]

The link, if typed into address bar, only opened a pdf file for reading or saving. No advertisement whatsoever. I'm not sure why that point is being missed.

I wasn't arguing with the person...just pointing out some inaccurate information. I enjoy the information that forums provide and, to be honest, don't feel strongly enough about the subject to argue on an online forum. The info about the guy is out there, but the pdf was good reading.

Still not getting it?

You are blocked from posting any links but you tried to go around the ToS and posted a link anyway. I didn't see the link so I don't know what it contained but the point is moot because you still violated the rules.

[retdetsgt]

He got out of jail and joined the U.S. Army where he eventually earned the Combat Infantryman Badge, two Army Commendation Medals and three Army Achievement Medals

He was lucky that we were fighting a war. A peace time Army would have never taken anyone like him. Pre Vietnam, the military was very picky with who they took. When I enlisted in 1964, I had to jump through hoops to get in with an MIP beer. By 1966, they started drafting and accepting people with minor felonies,

[mcsap]

His service in the US Army is very honorable.

His CHOICE to possess and unlicensed and stolen handgun as an adult isn't. He got a year sentence for a Misdemeanor that most people don't get.

He will have a TOUGH time overcoming that.

He should stay as a plumber and let those who had the adult sense to not make intentional criminal choices apply.

[Joeyd6]

Let me clarify one issue: Osvaldo Hernandez PLEADED GUILTY TO A SINGLE FELONY (rather than two), and in consideration of such, the City of New York offered him a sentence of a misdemeanor. He accepted. THUS HE IS A CONVICTED FELON.

Actually from what I read he has not been denied a job with NYPD.

Well then you need to do your homework. The NYPD does not send denial letters. They stop processing you. Then they wait till your exam expires.

He is still under character review.

See above. His exam is expired. Thus he can't be processed or hired. He he is no longer under review. He has been officially passed over.

I opened the PDF and it has no advertisement whatsoever. Zero, zip, none.

The actual link you posted was for the website of the firm who handled the pardon. A firm actively seeking people to help with similar issues. On the left there were two pdf links, one to the pardon application they wrote and one to the pardon granted. The website is a private business with a biased and one sided story with links to click. You mention people with background issues should take a look at this. Really....why? Why do they need to look at the website of a law firm for those who have had issues or need a pardon? Why not refer to the HUNDREDS of legitimate news articles that cover both sides, like ABC, NBC, CBS, NY Post, NY Times, etc....? Had you done such, there would not have been an issue.

Additionally, the rules do not allow you to post links. Period. You realized that, and instead of discussing the situation or posting a news article, you creatively write out the website, a blatant attempt to disregard the rules because you felt entitled to do such.

The pdf has a recommendation from a retired NYPD detective, an ADA, and a criminal court judge.

So what? They are giving their personal opinion, and do not represent the agency who they work for. It doe snot change that he took possession of a stolen gun, was under age and had the gun.

Funny little fact you and most others might like to know...at the time he was at community college studying criminal justices and working as an office clerk part time for a private detective agency. He knew the law, and was trying to play cop. It was several decision he made. By the way, he was CONVICTED of a FELONY and due to a plea deal, was sentenced as a misdemeanor.

The content of their words are why I thought some forum members may enjoy reading it; which you obviously did not take the time to do.

I read it. And you know what I see? A perp who made a big mistake and then decided he would try to right his wrong. The person who mentioned is a CONVICTED FELON. I will say it again...CONVICTED FELON. The pardon does not remove it from the record. Guys have been denied form the NYPD over parking tickets, who have no criminal history and served better than he. His awards thus far are nice, but when compared to vast majority of veterans, it is nothing spectacular. Those without the criminal history should get first dibs.

As far as what it has to do with staying focused... the man was convicted one day years ago; promised that he would be back to redeem himself, and did exactly that. From what I READ he also just returned from another tour abroad.

He was a convicted felon ten years ago, had to ask for a waiver to get in the Army, they were short handed and in a war took him (which they would otherwise not do), and he did his job. It does not change the fact he is a convicted felon, who under NYPD rules, cannot be hired. He can do 100 tours. It does not matter. He still mad e bad choice and is going to be held accountable.

I'm guessing from what you have written you do not believe the guy deserves the chance to put the past behind him. I sure hope you are not a decision maker for the hiring with your agency.

No but guess where I did time...NYPD APD Division and yes, I got to make some decisions on who gets and who does not. Just because you turn around your life, does not mean you are not held accountable for what you did.

Not sure what "blemishes" you are trying to overcome...certain actions may be forgiven, but they don't have to be forgotten.

[mcsap]

The title of this thread should be " Trying to get past that fact that he is a convicted felon who possessed a stolen gun in NYC"

Stay Focused is more appropriate for someone who doesn't get hired because they failed the PT test by 10 seconds in the run and kept at it and building up to go faster.

[MikeG]

The title of this thread should be " Trying to get past that fact that he is a convicted felon who possessed a stolen gun in NYC"

Stay Focused is more appropriate for someone who doesn't get hired because they failed the PT test by 10 seconds in the run and kept at it and building up to go faster.

I can't tell if he pursuing this further. I understand NYPD's concern about the precedent being set for allowing a convicted felon to become a police officer. I think the courts would have to weigh in on whether this meets the definition. They have a rather narrow administrative ruling as far as I can tell of "never been convicted of a felony." That would seem to include those convicted wrongly and since had their conviction vacated (imagine a person convicted of rape but then exonerated after conviction by DNA). Are persons who are released after being exonerated of a wrongful conviction ineligible to be NYPD officers because of the "never been convicted" reading?

It will be interesting to see if the courts consider certain pardons and restoration of civil rights equivalent to an exoneration in terms of how the conviction is viewed by employers. Is there a pardon that makes it illegal for an employer to discriminate based on that conviction?

Personally, I don't have an issue with this one individual becoming a LEO. I would be more reluctant to hire him based on the precedent it would set. There would have to be a much more concrete standard and something that protects the integrity of the hiring process. Not a LEO though.

[Joeyd6]

They have a rather narrow administrative ruling as far as I can tell of "never been convicted of a felony." That would seem to include those convicted wrongly and since had their conviction vacated (imagine a person convicted of rape but then exonerated after conviction by DNA). Are persons who are released after being exonerated of a wrongful conviction ineligible to be NYPD officers because of the "never been convicted" reading?

Yes they are, as long as they get a pardon from the governor stating it was based on a wrongful conviction (standard issue in cases of this type). Their record is expunged and all court records are "scrubbed." You will never find it on somebody's record. Hoverer in this case, the pardon was given on the basis of his honorable actions after his conviction. Thus it is merely a "we accept you made a mistake, and not only served some or all of your punishment, but we hold you accountable to the remaining punishment and believe you changed and won't resort to criminal activity as a lifestyle."

In NY, even with a conviction of a felony and no pardon, you can apply for:
1) Certificate of Relief from Disabilities if you have been convicted of one felony or misdemeanor(s); or
2) Certificate of Good Conduct if you were convicted of two or more felonies

Both under the law must be taken into consideration by the employer in deciding whether to hire you, but the law still permits an employer or licensing agency to refuse to hire or license you if your convictions are "job-related."

After you apply, the parole board assigns the application to a local parole officer, who conducts an investigation of their character and rehabilitation. After the investigation, the parole officer will send an evaluation to the Parole Board who will issue a denial or a certificate.


This is a clear cut issue for me on two facets:
1) People think they can do anything, say their sorry and all is forgotten. Wrong. Every choice one makes has life long consequences and people need to realize that; and
2) The NYPD has a set of printed and approved rules and regulations. Everyone is held to the exact same standard. You make one exception, and you will be flooded with lawsuits and others who want an exceptions. Exceptions lead to favoritism and issues on the stand in our line of work.

[MikeG]

This is a clear cut issue for me on two facets:
1) People think they can do anything, say their sorry and all is forgotten. Wrong. Every choice one makes has life long consequences and people need to realize that; and
2) The NYPD has a set of printed and approved rules and regulations. Everyone is held to the exact same standard. You make one exception, and you will be flooded with lawsuits and others who want an exceptions. Exceptions lead to favoritism and issues on the stand in our line of work.

I agree. I also think there is redemption but that doesn't mean "Felon to police officer" path. He has redeemed himself and I would be willing to treat that earlier crime as "youthful indiscretion" if there is enough time and space between them. I just think the if the reading of "Never been convicted of a felony" is the administrative code they are standing on without review, appeal or exception, they are inviting review of that code by outside interests like the Governor, legislature and the courts. Our most recent Supreme Court justice would have no issue with saying "conviction of a felony" is racially biased and a "points/preference" system is needed. Imagine certain groups starting with -3 in the number of "felonies convicted of" category and they can only DQ above 0.

Even the most trusted occupations have paths to redemption. I personally know a Dr. that started prescribing himself amphetamines in residency. He was kicked out and had to do a residency in a less lucrative/skilled area. Unfortunately his drug problem followed him and he was arrested/convicted of a felony distribution. DEA revoked his license, state board suspended his MD license. He first got back his MD license after about a year but DEA would not give back prescription privileges so he worked at clinics where his boss wrote the prescriptions for his exams. He also did commercials where "real Doctors" endorse health products. Three years later, the DEA gave him back his license. All he did was what was required community service sentence, stay clean and be model probation candidate. Practicing medicine on other human beings should have the highest standards of integrity yet is almost impossible to take away a license to practice.

The point is that even the most egregious violations have procedures of appeal and review. Hopefully all administrative and controlled by the agency that has to deal with the consequences. For example, I would much rather have the individual state POST boards setting "acceptable drug use/exceptions" policy for hire rather than a court or legislature. The officers that make up those boards have to work with the future hires and they know what is okay and what is not a lot more than judges.

I'd much rather see NYPD have a policy of review and decline based on what has been presented rather than just relying on the interpretation of code. Any administrative law judge can come in and "correct" the interpretation that "never convicted" doesn't apply here and that would suck. I hope they have a strategy of keeping control of the process despite a possibly strong and sympathetic challenge.

[Joeyd6]

I agree. I also think there is redemption but that doesn't mean "Felon to police officer" path. He has redeemed himself and I would be willing to treat that earlier crime as "youthful indiscretion" if there is enough time and space between them.

NY State law prevents such as anything you do at the age of 17 or older is considered adult behavior.

I'd much rather see NYPD have a policy of review and decline based on what has been presented rather than just relying on the interpretation of code. Any administrative law judge can come in and "correct" the interpretation that "never convicted" doesn't apply here and that would suck. I hope they have a strategy of keeping control of the process despite a possibly strong and sympathetic challenge.

Nobody is interpreting anything! There is a checklist that is followed, and one of them is if they have been convicted of a felony.

You may be confused about what a pardon is in NY. A pardon does not erase a conviction from a record unless it was a wrongful conviction. He will have to check the box for life that he is a convicted felon and it is on his record. The pardon is nothing more than a formality for him in NY to releases him from finishing a sentence, parole, or probation.

[1811_bound]

Not sure what "blemishes" you are trying to overcome...certain actions may be forgiven, but they don't have to be forgotten.

Not sure what you are saying here. I think this guy should be allowed to become a cop and somehow that means I have "blemishes"? I think that is a real stretch and way way way off. If I were seeking to overcome blemishes I would hope that people who are qualified to interpret laws would make the decision to hire me or not. Wait.... that does happen. The Civil Service Commission or DCAS. I forget which one oversees the appeals from city agency hiring practices.

We all have failed to follow the law in some form/fashion in our lives; I'm sure that is the case on even a daily basis. I'm sure most people don't commit felonies, but breaking the law is breaking the law. I know I see it everyday...from civilians, civil servants, NYPD officers, and federal officers.

I would not have to work with this guy if he were allowed to join the NYPD so what I'm about to say is obviously from that point of view. Isn't this person a better candidate to be a police officer than the unknown number cops who have broken the law? I'd rather work with this guy over that crooked police commissioner Bernard Kerik. I'd rather work with this guy than work with PO Volpe. I understand he broke the law...and I assume the ADA, the judge, and the Governor were also aware. And, like them, I believe he should be allowed to continue to one day become a LEO.

If you did read the pdf; you of course read the part where the judge wrote that the reason there are things such as Relief of Disabilities and Certificates of Good Conduct are so that individuals such as this guy can have a SECOND CHANCE. I'm no lawyer but if a judge who is the expert in matters of law decides that this person merits becoming one...I would give that a lot more weight than someone who merely clears an NYPD "checklist". Good moral character is not defined by the absence of wrong doing.