Requesting help to all experienced LEO's

[frank22]

hello everyone.. so here are the facts before i tell you that I have made mistakes, i am now different and all that stuff......Truth is, i have a not so great past.

At the age of 19 I was charged with 11357 (b) (possession of marijuana less than 28.5 grams) in 2007 which i completed a program only available for people under 21 which would dismiss the case once program completed, so that case was dismissed after successful completion.

In march of 2008 (20 years old) i was charged with a DUI, i completed all of the classes appointed, and paid all fines. I also applied for early probation termination and it was granted, then i submitted a petition for dismissal of the case and it was granted as well. DUI now dismissed.

But thats not it, here is my main concern. I was terminated of employment from a bank in 2006 due to theft. (Very long story for me to prove you is not like it sounds, but thats what the last word and thats how it ended). No charges were filed, just immediate termination. About 3 months later after that, i was hired at another bank (both banks major institutions in the U.S.). I have been employed at this bank for over 4 years now, been promoted twice since date of hire to this day. So my question is, HOW MUCH IS THIS TO AFFECT ME DURING BACKGROUND??

Major turn around in my life after DUI, outstanding record since then. Im very involved in church, i am a leader in the youth group and involved in many different activities. God has changed my life tremendously. This year i started to work part-time so i can finish my education. I have plans to join the academy next year and will be doing part time academy as well so it will take me longer to finish, therefore there will be more time between last conviction and present time.

I am aware of disclosing every detail to the background investigator about my past,i plan to do that 100%. I also plan to disclose my sealed juvenile record (i understand that is optional to do so being a sealed juvenile record as i was told by the T.O. at the academy).

Anyways i am coming for help to this forum hoping for any experienced LEO's to put in their 2 cents and give advice.

Thank you in advance for the help, and look forward to learn from all of you. Anything you want to comment on, juvenile? Work history? Adult criminal record?
Thanks Again!!

[1depd]

The DUI in 2008 is about 3 years old and the drugs are 4 years old. You are going to have to wait much longer. Even if you meet the minimum standards for employment you are competing against many people who do not have the skeletons in their closets you have in yours. The possible theft from your previous employer also won't go over well. I realize we don't have the whole story with that, but it is going to be a tough sell. Time is your friend. You will need to sit on the sidelines for a very long time to overcome the obstacles you have told us about.

Drugs for most places I have worked is a mandatory 5 year wait. Just to be minimally qualified, and again you are going up against many people who do not have the baggage you are carrying around. I would expect to have to wait at least another 5-10 years and that's if the economy improves and agencies start hiring again.

[mcsap]

5 years drug free for us and that is a MINIMUM STANDARD.

The DUI is STILL going to be an issue.

The issue of theft IS still an issue. Dishonesty is dishonesty even if there were no charges filed. A LOT of companies prefer to not file charges as they don't want the publicity that they have thieves working for them. They would much rather they just can you.

So overall , you have background issues that ONLY time and perserverence can even begin to overcome.

It is good that you have changed your life but you didn't make any mistakes in your past. Each and every time with the drugs, alcohol and the theft.....you knew exactly what you were doing. You made choices. Choices that aren't erased in a couple of years or by your self proclaimed turnaround.

There are a LOT of candidates that don't use drugs, didn't get a dui and didn't steal from their employer. We would much rather consider them ( for now) than someone who has a background such as yours.

It's noting personal against you , just the truth.

[pac201]

1depd has pretty much covered the bases for you. You have an uphill battle that may not work out for you. As was stated you will be competing against people who do not have any charges, college degreed etc.

Just my opinion, but I think your money would be better spent on a different course of action.

[retdetsgt]

It would be tough to be hired by my old department. One of those things (DUI, dope and termination) would get a hard look, but all three would be too much to overcome.

[mobrien316]

I agree. If I was going over your background packet and saw all three of those things I wouldn't advance your application.

There would have to be some significant time and events, such as a three- or four-year term in one of the armed services (without any problems) for me to be willing to move your application along. And even then it wouldn't be a sure thing, because I'd be looking at applicants who have military experience and don't have the issues you have in your past.

[marinepilot]

Frank,

Looks like you've gotten lots of really good advice here from some very experienced LEO's. Your background is very recent in terms of the drugs (4 years) and the DUI (3 years) ago. As some have said, there is a minimum time you must be completely drug free before getting hired. Well, most agencies also have the same minimum time frame for waiting after a DUI. The theft from an employer, now, that's going to be hard to overcome. As someone above stated it shows dishonesty, which is something that you can NEVER be allowed to do as a Law Enforcement Officer. Even tho you were never charged, you still committed the crime. And the attitude in LE is that once dishonest, forever dishonest (or darn close to it).

The statement that bothers me the most is when you said you believed it to be optional to disclose your sealed juvenile record, of which you mentioned nothing in your post. Maybe someone at the academy told you that was optional, but I guarantee to your Background Investigator (B.I.) it is not. It may be sealed, but don't forget, that just means sealed to the PUBLIC, but I'm betting a LEO could gain access to it if you put yourself up there for possibly hiring.

And I must ask, what kind of crimes did you commit as a juvenile that were sealed? This is important because if the crimes are similar to what you did as an adult (drugs, DUI, or theft), that shows propensity towards that crime and that you have a history of it. Even if they aren't the same crimes, it still shows a history of bad behavior that may not be able to be overcome.

Just a little about me, I was a stellar applicant. NEVER tried any drugs, career in the Marine Corps, getting meritoriously promoted from the Enlisted Ranks to the Officer Ranks. Never in ANY trouble in my 21 year military career, heck, was even awarded a medal from the President in a Rose Garden ceremony, both a personal medal and a medal on behalf of all Marines involved in that action. About 3 years before I retired (and therefore 3 years before I was seeking employment as a LEO) I made a decision that I didn't even think about. Well, it was not even against the law, so I didn't have to worry about being prosecuted, but it was a bad moral decision, and it affected my gaining employment with the agency I wanted to be with. I was let go from a training position (the only job I've EVER lost in my entire life!) and was lucky enough to take a job with a MUCH smaller agency. After 2 1/2 years there (now fully 6 years after the bad moral choice), I was FINALLY able to reapply to my number one agency and get asked to join them.

So, you see, your background has much more to overcome than I did, and I still had trouble getting employed in LE.

Truly think about spending the time, effort, and money to seek LE certification through self-sponsorship. Talk to some officers in the agency you are looking to join and ask their opinion. Tell them everything because if you lie, it's over forever.

Best of luck, and please stick around and let us know what happens.

[retdetsgt]

Best of luck, and please stick around and let us know what happens.

Yeah, this really isn't a "bash Frank" thread. But to give you some perspective, my department started taking applications on Monday at 8 a.m. At 8:07 they closed it. Their maximum was 200 applicants and they had 350 before they could shut it down.

Now a lot (maybe the majority) will get tossed immediately, but that leaves a lot of people competing for maybe 20 openings in the coming year. They have a lot of people to chose from and they don't need to even consider people with iffy backgrounds.

[Kimble]

What everyone else said above pretty much speaks to what you would experience if applying to any of the 3 agencies I've worked for. You'll either need to put more time under your belt before you apply and have a shot at being successful (i.e. years) or will not be ruled most competitive indefinitely due to being up against applicants who don't have these issues.

[cntryboy0531]

Just to meet minimums at my department we require at least 5 years between applying and any dui arrest (not conviction, but arrest). You would not meet minimum requirements at my department.

[Joeyd6]

A lesson for all who are aspiring and young enough to read this.

People make mistakes. Cops and BI' realize that. And while people may change, it does not negate what was done. While time without doing it again shows some maturity, it does not mean you have to be forgiven by the hiring agency. The desire to be a LEO does not mean you have the right to be one. Competition is tough...very tough. There are folks with no blemishes applying. Despite what anyone tells you, alcohol and marijuana are a drug. One hit or sip can ruin you entire life. Think about that before you sip or inhale.

[frank22]

Wow!! First of all, thank you much for all of your help so far. I really appreciate all the input and advise here from all of you who have replied. So glad I joined, I’ve been looking around in the forums for quite a while now, and first post I place and all this help? Just Amazing! Thank You!!
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My plan is of course to wait for more time to pass by. I plan on start submitting applications once I have at least a bachelors degree, if more time is needed, then I will work on a masters. I also plan on applying for reserve officer if no positions open or many applicants for other positions. Im starting to ask now since I know im getting close to meet the MINIMUM qualifications for employment, and need ideas to what to expect with a background like mine if decide to apply then. Just making sure there are no automatic disqualifiers in my background.
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My juvenile record I have 466 PC, 459 (2nd) PC, and 626.10 (a) PC. I have great justifiers, but i understand they will see whats on my record, and consider less my side of the story. These charges were dismissed after successful completion of Deferred Entry of Judgment (DEJ). Once I turned 18, I had my records sealed.
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Believe when I say I understand the consequences of my past actions, walking away from your dream to wait patiently for a long period of time stinks, that’s exactly what im doing right now.
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I rather not go to explain myself for the charges in my record, I can say the perfect side of my story, but the facts are WHATS ON my record, I know I can’t change that. I have done everything possible that is on my hands to fix what ive done, I dismissed every single one of them. *
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I am really hoping to get an experienced background investigation that will find out exactly what kind of person I am now, and not just be base on my past (I understand they have to and will see my past). My life since my last conviction has been just around people of good moral character, retired sheriffs, current recruits, if a B.I. really goes deep into my life im sure (110%) he will find out how good of a person I am. My conscious is clean and will not be hiding anything, honestly not ashamed of what happened in the past, that made me who I am now. I do regret what I did and it wasn’t because I wanted or enjoyed what I did, I was ignorant, I did not know any better.
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A person I know is currently attending the police academy sponsored by the agency I would like to apply to, he tried to advise me not to disclose the problem I had at the bank. He had a similar situation (terminated by previous employer) and told me his B.I. did not speak to that specific employer since it was so long ago (same case about 6 years) he said he was terminated for another reason. Now Im not sure if that was a mistake on the B.I. behalf, but I don’t want to rely on any IFs or favors from people inside the agency. I want to be able to be upfront and disclose everything to all agencies I will applying for and be ready to talk about anything.
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Anything else I should be doing about my past (besides time) for my record to have the less impact possible during background? I dismissed all of them, dismissed and sealed my juveniles, truly changed behavior, etc.
What else can I possibly do for my past to have less impact on me?
I have faith that something its gonna work out, do you guys see any auto-disqualifiers so far?
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Folks, I mean it when I say thank you to all of you. You guys are really helping people out there. I know there so many guys like me getting great help from just reading posts like this. Very much appreciated!!
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[retdetsgt]

A person I know is currently attending the police academy sponsored by the agency I would like to apply to, he tried to advise me not to disclose the problem I had at the bank. He had a similar situation (terminated by previous employer) and told me his B.I. did not speak to that specific employer since it was so long ago (same case about 6 years) he said he was terminated for another reason. Now Im not sure if that was a mistake on the B.I. behalf, but I don’t want to rely on any IFs or favors from people inside the agency. I want to be able to be upfront and disclose everything to all agencies I will applying for and be ready to talk about anything.

If someone told me NOT to speak to a specific employer, I'd immediately get on the phone. That is simply the worst advice you could get.

Honest is incredibly important in being a cop. A friend of mine was a BI for years and he had an index card he read to every applicant that clearly stated if he found out they lied or held back anything of reasonable importance, their application was going in the trash can.

[frank22]

yeah, i meant to say that he told me that his B.I. did not speak with his previous employer not that he asked his B.I. not to speak with previous employer...

anyhow, i definitely not taking his advice, i will disclose every detail of my past. i will prove the B.I. im not hiding anything whatsoever.

any B.I. out there wanting to share how are dismissed/sealed charges looked at?

[GoDirectly2Jail]

By their definition, auto-disqualifiers take an applicant out of the process automatically. There are state standards for those conditions, and individual departments may add additional ones that are even more restrictive.

Because of this, the answer to whether you have any auto-dq conditions listed will vary based upon location and the departments to which you apply, so I am not in a position to answer it for your specific situation.

I can say that if you applied to my department, none of what you listed is an auto-dq. That said, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, you would be in the bottom most percentage of qualified candidates, and as you may know, there is a big difference between who meets the minimum standards versus who is actually hired. Here is a little graph to illustrate that.



This is not to say that you cannot change your position on this theoretical little graph - but right now, based on what you've posted you do not appear to be a very competitive candidate. I know that I might be coming across as a bit harsh, so I will just direct your attention below to the disclaimer in my signature line. Good luck in your endeavors.