Have posted before: Would like second opinion

[kevfe1986]

Hello all:


Before you read my post I just want to say I have posted before, haven't used the site for several months, and attempted to login which I was told my login failed too many times. I did not see any active links for forgot password on this page, so I created a new user profile with the same email and it worked. Not sure if maybe I cancelled registration on the other user account or not, but if any of you admin members find a double registration-it wasn't on purpose and I will fix it immediately.

Heres my post, and instead of my being argumentative with responses, I just want to know. I happen to be close friends with a Lieutenant of a large city police department in my area. I met him at a training class while I was a police dispatcher several years back. I have several things that concern me about my background, I did mention them before and received rather mean responses. My uncle is also a Master Sergeant, but simply trying to use people and family to get a job holds no integrity, and thats not what I am about. I am an honest individual, and have every intent to disclose every single aspect of my background when the time comes. I believe there are things that may be dismayed upon, but I don't think I fall under any auto disqualifiers based on whats advertised by most departments-then again every department is different.

1) Recently filed joint bankruptcy with wife to clear up past debts. Not all were caused by irresponsible finance management. Mainly to clear up a vehicle surrender once I lost a previous job. Current finances would show no problems, living clean and comfortably, all taxes in order, and financial courses have been taken to ensure no further credit issues. Aside from that I have held several jobs where I have been trusted to handle money and other finances. -Never an issue-
2) I have been terminated from a job before as a campus security officer. My training, uniforms, and probation time was all paid for, and I believe when they found out I was being scouted for a state marshals agency they put some reasons on paper that didn't really make much sense and let me go before the probationary term was complete-mind you I had no other disciplinary problems at all since I had been there. The nature of the reasons were performanced based, and there is no history to show a track record of poor work performance. Work performance history in fact is actually impressive with promotions, police chief commendations, awards, etc. However Labor department found in favor of me and I won my case. Either way you look at it, its still a termination that needs analyzing and explaining. Not proud of it. But I've seen candidates get through it. Consistent stability from all jobs thereafter.
3) Following the death of my sister in 2006 and my father this past September it caused me to endure deep stress-which I think is quite normal for someone losing close family members. However, a police officers job can be quite stressful for the type of work involved. At this time I was placed on anxiety based medication and seeing a specialist temporarily to help return to the norm.
I am currently working out to maintain health and exercise. I have no history of any mental or medical based health issues.
4) Lastly-was a police explorer in my hometown for 8 years. Moved up the ranks and became lead explorer Lieutenant. Once I moved into another city I laterally transferred and became Captain for that explorer team. Very different environment. Became roommates with one of the civilian head advisors of the program and unfortunately he failed to contribute to home living expenses, which caused me to move out. Immediately following that, I was asked not to return to the program due to the issue an several other vague reasons, including that I allegedly parked in an unmarked supervisor's parking spot while dropping off barricades from a public event in which I volunteered to help at. Clearly a domestic issue unfortunately with someone who had the ability to remove me from the program. 8 years with no issues versus 8 months with the other program-I feel if any veteran officer reviewed that they would not question my character.

Aside from that:
8 years police explorer experience
4 years security and supervisor experience
numerous awards
police chief's commendation for assisting the dept apprehend a robbery suspect
experience as police dispatcher for local and state police agency
previous training in medical emergency care
multiple trainings in pepper spray, pr-24 expandable baton, and other defense aspects
attended explorer based police academy 4 times during summer time
excellent driving record-dmv- no tickets ever!
no criminal record
never tried/or used any type of drugs or narcotics
excellent school history/records


So please, I ask you veterans out there. Tell me what you think honestly. I can handle it this time. Definitley some issues. I feel like its a cup of ice cold water but theres about 5 spoons of salt poored in it to ruin it, but, nonetheless, only veterans would know the answer. My uncle whom is a master sergeant seems to think the best thing is time from the occurrence of the incidents to show stability in financial areas, as well as getting through anxiety. He said it would definitley be analyzed as a potentially risky situation for a police candidate, but based on that info he didn't see anything that would be an auto disqualifier unless the department had an ani bankruptcy policy which he said some do some will look at it on a case by case basis depending on the situation and considering the economy is not the best right now. But he directed me to this site to ask because he told me he is in a smaller department thats run much more politically. Please offer your honest opinions-just dont be too harsh with me

[mcsap]

Hello all:


Before you read my post I just want to say I have posted before, haven't used the site for several months, and attempted to login which I was told my login failed too many times. I did not see any active links for forgot password on this page, so I created a new user profile with the same email and it worked. Not sure if maybe I cancelled registration on the other user account or not, but if any of you admin members find a double registration-it wasn't on purpose and I will fix it immediately.

Heres my post, and instead of my being argumentative with responses, I just want to know. I happen to be close friends with a Lieutenant of a large city police department in my area. I met him at a training class while I was a police dispatcher several years back. I have several things that concern me about my background, I did mention them before and received rather mean responses. My uncle is also a Master Sergeant, but simply trying to use people and family to get a job holds no integrity, and thats not what I am about. I am an honest individual, and have every intent to disclose every single aspect of my background when the time comes. I believe there are things that may be dismayed upon, but I don't think I fall under any auto disqualifiers based on whats advertised by most departments-then again every department is different.

1) Recently filed joint bankruptcy with wife to clear up past debts. Not all were caused by irresponsible finance management. Mainly to clear up a vehicle surrender once I lost a previous job. Current finances would show no problems, living clean and comfortably, all taxes in order, and financial courses have been taken to ensure no further credit issues. Aside from that I have held several jobs where I have been trusted to handle money and other finances. -Never an issue-
2) I have been terminated from a job before as a campus security officer. My training, uniforms, and probation time was all paid for, and I believe when they found out I was being scouted for a state marshals agency they put some reasons on paper that didn't really make much sense and let me go before the probationary term was complete-mind you I had no other disciplinary problems at all since I had been there. The nature of the reasons were performanced based, and there is no history to show a track record of poor work performance. Work performance history in fact is actually impressive with promotions, police chief commendations, awards, etc. However Labor department found in favor of me and I won my case. Either way you look at it, its still a termination that needs analyzing and explaining. Not proud of it. But I've seen candidates get through it. Consistent stability from all jobs thereafter.
3) Following the death of my sister in 2006 and my father this past September it caused me to endure deep stress-which I think is quite normal for someone losing close family members. However, a police officers job can be quite stressful for the type of work involved. At this time I was placed on anxiety based medication and seeing a specialist temporarily to help return to the norm.
I am currently working out to maintain health and exercise. I have no history of any mental or medical based health issues.
4) Lastly-was a police explorer in my hometown for 8 years. Moved up the ranks and became lead explorer Lieutenant. Once I moved into another city I laterally transferred and became Captain for that explorer team. Very different environment. Became roommates with one of the civilian head advisors of the program and unfortunately he failed to contribute to home living expenses, which caused me to move out. Immediately following that, I was asked not to return to the program due to the issue an several other vague reasons, including that I allegedly parked in an unmarked supervisor's parking spot while dropping off barricades from a public event in which I volunteered to help at. Clearly a domestic issue unfortunately with someone who had the ability to remove me from the program. 8 years with no issues versus 8 months with the other program-I feel if any veteran officer reviewed that they would not question my character.

Aside from that:
8 years police explorer experience means nothing at all
4 years security and supervisor experience means a little
numerous awards means a little
police chief's commendation for assisting the dept apprehend a robbery suspect attaboy
experience as police dispatcher for local and state police agency helpful
previous training in medical emergency care deosnt matter what you were , what are you now ?
multiple trainings in pepper spray, pr-24 expandable baton, and other defense aspects unless formal POLICE training , means little.
attended explorer based police academy 4 times during summer time means nothing !!!
excellent driving record-dmv- no tickets ever! very good
no criminal record expected !!!
never tried/or used any type of drugs or narcotics good
excellent school history/recordsgood


So please, I ask you veterans out there. Tell me what you think honestly. I can handle it this time. Definitley some issues. I feel like its a cup of ice cold water but theres about 5 spoons of salt poored in it to ruin it, but, nonetheless, only veterans would know the answer. My uncle whom is a master sergeant seems to think the best thing is time from the occurrence of the incidents to show stability in financial areas, as well as getting through anxiety. He said it would definitley be analyzed as a potentially risky situation for a police candidate, but based on that info he didn't see anything that would be an auto disqualifier unless the department had an ani bankruptcy policy which he said some do some will look at it on a case by case basis depending on the situation and considering the economy is not the best right now. But he directed me to this site to ask because he told me he is in a smaller department thats run much more politically. Please offer your honest opinions-just dont be too harsh with me

The bankruptcy is a bruise which will be looked at but probably isn't going to DQ you.

Police Explorers are fun but do NOT indicate that you received any kind of POLICE training or experience. Even if you think you did.

[kevfe1986]

Thanks for the feedback and your absolutely right, I wouldnt put it as work experience either. Just a.volunteer activity to show interest. Thanks again mcscap! Appreciate you reading my novel post lol

[Outshined]

I think I have read this before.

I would need to see why you were let go as a campus security, and dig a little more into some of the other job related problems you have had.

I always look at finances and credit scores quite close. Sometimes I feel that if you don't have a good job you can't have a great credit score. So that is not "always" a dis qualifier for me.

I cannot tell you if you can get hired or not without doing a background on you.

[L-1]

As a former BI, I would suggest that your post sounds like a self serving tap dance around the truth, It provides a bits and pieces of information that gloss over what happened but leave out anything of substance that might tell the full story.

You say you filed for bankruptcy to clear up a vehicle surrender that resulted from unemployment. But once you surrender a vehicle all that might be owed is the difference between the outstanding balance and what the car sells for at auction. The costs of filing bankruptcy is usually far more than what you may still owe on the car.

You say you were terminated from your job for performance issues that you were not proud of, but at the same time you try to gloss it over by saying the whole thing didn't make sense. No cigar here.

As an Explorer you began living with a civilian program advisor (call it room mate or whatever you want, this reflected really bad judgment on both your parts). After a financial dispute you moved out. Later you were asked to leave the program after allegations of misconduct which you did not articulate. Instead, you claimed this to be retaliation for your financial dispute. This one is a little hard to buy.

I see two possibilities here. The first is that you have some problems in your background and you are trying to cover you *** (without a lot of success). The other possibility is that you are a victim of circumstance who simply doesn't know who to articulate when explaining things. This is a critically important skill for a police officer. If you are unable to explain complicated matters in a coherent fashion, your reports will get torn apart by your supervisors, prosecuting attorneys and defense lawyers. In addition you will get creamed on the witness stand. Cops who lack these skills rarely make it past probation.

Either way, I think you have some hurdles to overcome.

[Citicop]

kevf-

Since we don't allow users to have multiple accounts, and you say you can't access the original one, I have banned it and you can use this one.

I also see that you have given a different reason for the bankruptcy than you gave the first time around.

I see your attitude here is better than it was in that thread, as well as in this one where you lashed out at the officers because of the answers you got.

I trust you will keep up your new found attitude in tact as you get the opinions you sought, even if it's not what you planned on hearing.

-Citicop.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

Isn't coming back here to ask the same people the same questions a second time a lot like wanting a second opinion by going to the same doctor twice?

[Samuel]

Why would the answers be any different this time around? Unless you've changed your history...

[Joeyd6]

As a former BI, I would suggest that your post sounds like a self serving tap dance around the truth, It provides a bits and pieces of information that gloss over what happened but leave out anything of substance that might tell the full story.

Why would the answers be any different this time around? Unless you've changed your history...

Yep! A bankruptcy over voluntary surrender? BS. It was way more than that. Any car that is a VS, gets sold at auction. You are only held responsible for the difference between what you owe and the auction price. And the auction is no "We sell your car for $5." It is a legitimate auction. With cars going around 50% of retail at a auctiopn, your debt would have been minimal if you originally bought a car you could afford. Additionally, with a VS, you can make a payment plan for the balace for the remaining life of teh loan. Thus you car payment is at least 50% less, if not more. There is more to the bankruptcy than you are admitting.

You need a lot of time and a lot more maturity. You are a DQ by NYPD standards.

[kevfe1986]

Thanks for your replies:

CitiCop: Thanks for adjusting my double account issue. And yes, you are correct-my bankruptcy is still partially accounted for my sister's unfortunate passing, but my uncle advised me to include my surrendered vehicle as having a surrendered vehicle on a credit report without a bankruptcy is worse than paying off a repo surrender and can lead to permanent credit turmoil. Whether I become a cop or not someday I still need my credit if I want to buy a house, etc. I have a wife and son to think about.

Joey D: Not really appreciative of your responses. First of all, I have been employed by a police department before and have passed a thorough background check. I am well aware of repossession procedures as I unfortunately went through it, not something I chose to go through. You seem to be well educated on them, almost a little too knowledgeble. However, don't you think if I could've made my monthly payments I wouldn't have surrendered the vehicle to begin with? Also, instead of bashing me I would've then told you I filed a chapter 13 bankruptcy instead of 7, so that means I have opted to pay back by creditors not run from them. By the way, my friend Adam whom has been at fault in 3 severe accidents and had a minor arrest record for marijuana possession several years later has become an officer for NYPD during the most recent graduation and is now serving in the Brooklyn area. I guess if I just had car crashes or possessed drugs instead of losing my job and not affording my vehicle I would have had a much better shot with NYPD...rats thats sucks for me.

L1: Thanks for the feedback. I didn't get much out of your advice other than you assuming a lot of non-facts about my background which of course my post would have been 10 pages long for you to assume the things that you did. My positive accomplishments alone and the fact that I had been previously employed by a police department before and have passed a thorough background investigation hoped that would buy me some credibility. Unfortunately some things have changed in my life since that time period hence the reason I'm here posting questions. I'd be more than happy to email you a 5 page evaluation of my life because I feel as though your under the impression that I am hiding something and I have absolutely nothing to hide or cover up, and I desperately want to work in Law Enforcement. And just to clarify, I was promoted to a civilian police explorer advisor when I moved in with one(forgot to mention that). We were good friends and worked together-not sure how you interpreted that as bad judgement but I guess one would say its the same thing as married couples working for the same police department-can lead to potential on the job issues which I guess in this case it did unfortunately for me. You can't say that never happens. : ) And also, alleged misconduct? Where'd that come from? I never said I was let go from any explorers team for misconduct;hence the reason I can send you an email if your interested. Winning you over would be winning over a BI.

Thanks again to all!

[L-1]

Thanks for your replies:

Joey D: Not really appreciative of your responses. First of all, I have been employed by a police department before and have passed a thorough background check. I am well aware of repossession procedures as I unfortunately went through it, not something I chose to go through. You seem to be well educated on them, almost a little too knowledgeble. However, don't you think if I could've made my monthly payments I wouldn't have surrendered the vehicle to begin with? Also, instead of bashing me I would've then told you I filed a chapter 13 bankruptcy instead of 7, so that means I have opted to pay back by creditors not run from them. By the way, my friend Adam whom has been at fault in 3 severe accidents and had a minor arrest record for marijuana possession several years later has become an officer for NYPD during the most recent graduation and is now serving in the Brooklyn area. I guess if I just had car crashes or possessed drugs instead of losing my job and not affording my vehicle I would have had a much better shot with NYPD...rats thats sucks for me.

L1: Thanks for the feedback. I didn't get much out of your advice other than you assuming a lot of non-facts about my background which of course my post would have been 10 pages long for you to assume the things that you did. My positive accomplishments alone and the fact that I had been previously employed by a police department before and have passed a thorough background investigation hoped that would buy me some credibility. Unfortunately some things have changed in my life since that time period hence the reason I'm here posting questions. I'd be more than happy to email you a 5 page evaluation of my life because I feel as though your under the impression that I am hiding something and I have absolutely nothing to hide or cover up, and I desperately want to work in Law Enforcement. And just to clarify, I was promoted to a civilian police explorer advisor when I moved in with one(forgot to mention that). We were good friends and worked together-not sure how you interpreted that as bad judgement but I guess one would say its the same thing as married couples working for the same police department-can lead to potential on the job issues which I guess in this case it did unfortunately for me. You can't say that never happens. : ) And also, alleged misconduct? Where'd that come from? I never said I was let go from any explorers team for misconduct;hence the reason I can send you an email if your interested. Winning you over would be winning over a BI.

Thanks again to all!

You asked for second opinions and were provided with several of them. Next time, you shouldn't ask if you might not like the answers you are going to get

If there is more to your story and we are wrong then so be it. But remember, we based our replies on the limited information you provided. The wording of you original post created the impression that you were either covering something up, had poor job performance, exhibited poor personal judgment, were inarticulate and/or any combination of the above.

As I said in my original post, you may simply be a victim of circumstance who doesn't know who to articulate when explaining things. This is a critically important skill for a police officer. If you are unable to explain complicated matters in a coherent fashion, your reports will get torn apart by your supervisors, prosecuting attorneys and defense lawyers. In addition you will get creamed on the witness stand. Cops who lack these skills rarely make it past probation. If this is the case (as it sounds like you are claiming in your follow up post) you will need to expend considerable effort in your writing and personal expression skills if you intend to be successful in this job. I doubt you will make it past the background with such bizarre statements as were found in your original post.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

[Samuel]

Hello all:


Before you read my post I just want to say I have posted before, haven't used the site for several months, and attempted to login which I was told my login failed too many times. I did not see any active links for forgot password on this page, so I created a new user profile with the same email and it worked. Not sure if maybe I cancelled registration on the other user account or not, but if any of you admin members find a double registration-it wasn't on purpose and I will fix it immediately.

Heres my post, and instead of my being argumentative with responses, I just want to know. I happen to be close friends with a Lieutenant of a large city police department in my area. I met him at a training class while I was a police dispatcher several years back. I have several things that concern me about my background, I did mention them before and received rather mean responses. My uncle is also a Master Sergeant, but simply trying to use people and family to get a job holds no integrity, and thats not what I am about. I am an honest individual, and have every intent to disclose every single aspect of my background when the time comes. I believe there are things that may be dismayed upon, but I don't think I fall under any auto disqualifiers based on whats advertised by most departments-then again every department is different.

1) Recently filed joint bankruptcy with wife to clear up past debts. Not all were caused by irresponsible finance management. Mainly to clear up a vehicle surrender once I lost a previous job. Current finances would show no problems, living clean and comfortably, all taxes in order, and financial courses have been taken to ensure no further credit issues. Aside from that I have held several jobs where I have been trusted to handle money and other finances. -Never an issue-
2) I have been terminated from a job before as a campus security officer. My training, uniforms, and probation time was all paid for, and I believe when they found out I was being scouted for a state marshals agency they put some reasons on paper that didn't really make much sense and let me go before the probationary term was complete-mind you I had no other disciplinary problems at all since I had been there. The nature of the reasons were performanced based, and there is no history to show a track record of poor work performance. Work performance history in fact is actually impressive with promotions, police chief commendations, awards, etc. However Labor department found in favor of me and I won my case. Either way you look at it, its still a termination that needs analyzing and explaining. Not proud of it. But I've seen candidates get through it. Consistent stability from all jobs thereafter.
3) Following the death of my sister in 2006 and my father this past September it caused me to endure deep stress-which I think is quite normal for someone losing close family members. However, a police officers job can be quite stressful for the type of work involved. At this time I was placed on anxiety based medication and seeing a specialist temporarily to help return to the norm.
I am currently working out to maintain health and exercise. I have no history of any mental or medical based health issues.
4) Lastly-was a police explorer in my hometown for 8 years. Moved up the ranks and became lead explorer Lieutenant. Once I moved into another city I laterally transferred and became Captain for that explorer team. Very different environment. Became roommates with one of the civilian head advisors of the program and unfortunately he failed to contribute to home living expenses, which caused me to move out. Immediately following that, I was asked not to return to the program due to the issue an several other vague reasons, including that I allegedly parked in an unmarked supervisor's parking spot while dropping off barricades from a public event in which I volunteered to help at. Clearly a domestic issue unfortunately with someone who had the ability to remove me from the program. 8 years with no issues versus 8 months with the other program-I feel if any veteran officer reviewed that they would not question my character.

Aside from that:
8 years police explorer experience
4 years security and supervisor experience
numerous awards
police chief's commendation for assisting the dept apprehend a robbery suspect
experience as police dispatcher for local and state police agency
previous training in medical emergency care
multiple trainings in pepper spray, pr-24 expandable baton, and other defense aspects
attended explorer based police academy 4 times during summer time
excellent driving record-dmv- no tickets ever!
no criminal record
never tried/or used any type of drugs or narcotics
excellent school history/records


So please, I ask you veterans out there. Tell me what you think honestly. I can handle it this time. Definitley some issues. I feel like its a cup of ice cold water but theres about 5 spoons of salt poored in it to ruin it, but, nonetheless, only veterans would know the answer. My uncle whom is a master sergeant seems to think the best thing is time from the occurrence of the incidents to show stability in financial areas, as well as getting through anxiety. He said it would definitley be analyzed as a potentially risky situation for a police candidate, but based on that info he didn't see anything that would be an auto disqualifier unless the department had an ani bankruptcy policy which he said some do some will look at it on a case by case basis depending on the situation and considering the economy is not the best right now. But he directed me to this site to ask because he told me he is in a smaller department thats run much more politically. Please offer your honest opinions-just dont be too harsh with me

I call BULLSH1T. ::CLICK::

[Citicop]

I guess if I just had car crashes or possessed drugs instead of losing my job and not affording my vehicle I would have had a much better shot with NYPD...rats thats sucks for me.

kevf-

This is the same response you posted last time, under the other name.

"I know someone who flunked out of college/did drugs/got in an accident/other bad behavior and is a cop. Why are you saying that my background presents challenges?"

We're saying that because it does. Funny how our second opinion was the same as our first, as was your response, isn't it?

Based on the interactions we have had with you, I will go out on a limb and say it's not the bankruptcy that will be your biggest hurdle, it will be your attitude and refusal to take honest and forthright advice and criticism.

Last time you were here, I told you that time was your friend, and that none of this would be nearly the issue it is now in a few years. That advice holds true. If you want to apply now, go ahead. If you want to wait and improve your chances, you can do that too.

If you displayed the attitude you have shown so far here with me as your supervisor or FTO, you would have a short and legendary career in my department. What someone else did has no effect at all on what you did or have done. Posts like the quoted one above make you sound like a child:

But Adam got a bigger cookie than me!

I am closing this thread, because once again, it seems you don't want to hear what we have to say. I am at a loss to explain why you even came back, since neither our opinion nor your juvenile reaction seems to have changed at all.

[Joeyd6]

Joey D: Not really appreciative of your responses.

I am not your mom. YOU asked a question and got an answer. The world is not a warm and fuzzy place., You got an honest answer. If you don't like it, blame yourself, not me. If you don't "appreciate" honesty, you career is LE is over before it begins. And if you skin is this thin....you can forget about the job now.

First of all, I have been employed by a police department before and have passed a thorough background check.

That was then and this is now. And if you think you knew you were fine, why ask here? And you passed the BI for a dispatcher slot, right? Not the same BI as a cop.

I am well aware of repossession procedures as I unfortunately went through it, not something I chose to go through. You seem to be well educated on them, almost a little too knowledgeble.

Nice try at an insult that I was repo/VS. But you are wrong. See I worked a summer in college at Ford Motor Credit and got to handle/process VS and repos. I know the process well.

However, don't you think if I could've made my monthly payments I wouldn't have surrendered the vehicle to begin with?

You could not make yoru payments and had to VS becuase you could not refinance or get into a smaller car. You could not do that because either you put no money down and drove off the lot upside down or you bought a car more than you could afford (aka payment is so much you can't build up your savings).

Also, instead of bashing me I would've then told you I filed a chapter 13 bankruptcy instead of 7, so that means I have opted to pay back by creditors not run from them.

I did not bash you. See my first comment. Second, I am not a mind reader. Post facts and you a get response. Post half the story and get a answer you don't like, its your own fault.

By the way, my friend Adam whom has been at fault in 3 severe accidents and had a minor arrest record for marijuana possession several years later has become an officer for NYPD during the most recent graduation and is now serving in the Brooklyn area.

First he has to be deemed at fault for the accidents to matter. Then we look at time. You can be in 100 accidents. The cause is also examined. So unless you have the cause code from the accident reports and the insurance company print out, your point is moot. And the pot arrest was "several years" prior. Like as in a juvenile arrest? How much? What was the disposition? Without full details you point is moot.