Polygragh confusement. Need some honest answers please =)

[willc86]

Hello, well lately I've been getting discouraging answers to the people whom I've been asking. I do not know if they are just a bad apple that are trying to discourage me, or if they been honest.

Well, anyways, I am just drowned out with fear on my past. Many are saying they will not take me in because if this act.

Well, I am a waiter, and you know, there is food everywhere. I usually take food and eat there. The manager does not mind, and the cooks do not mind. Also, I discount checks and keep the rest of the change for me. The manager sometimes gives coupons and gives discounts and he knows what we do.

NOw, I know one of the questions would be, have you ever stolen cash from your previous employers? I never stolen cash in my life, but I use the discounts the manager gives me and I keep the change. I asked a lot of officers about my situation and they told me "dude, that is nothing. I do not think you even have to mention that. That is not really stealing cash. You are just giving this to much thought. It is your own conscious saying you stole cash; I would say no in the polygraph" I have asked more then one officers (2 beings relatives)

But every time I ask random people, they give me discouraging answers and tell me I have to wait about 5 years to apply.

So I am asking for honest answers.Based on your experience, would they really DQ me for that action? or am I just giving this to much thought and really working myself up for nothing?

[GoDirectly2Jail]

Hello, well lately I've been getting discouraging answers to the people whom I've been asking. I do not know if they are just a bad apple that are trying to discourage me, or if they been honest.

Well, anyways, I am just drowned out with fear on my past. Many are saying they will not take me in because if this act.

Well, I am a waiter, and you know, there is food everywhere. I usually take food and eat there. The manager does not mind, and the cooks do not mind. Also, I discount checks and keep the rest of the change for me. The manager sometimes gives coupons and gives discounts and he knows what we do.

NOw, I know one of the questions would be, have you ever stolen cash from your previous employers? I never stolen cash in my life, but I use the discounts the manager gives me and I keep the change. I asked a lot of officers about my situation and they told me "dude, that is nothing. I do not think you even have to mention that. That is not really stealing cash. You are just giving this to much thought. It is your own conscious saying you stole cash; I would say no in the polygraph" I have asked more then one officers (2 beings relatives)

But every time I ask random people, they give me discouraging answers and tell me I have to wait about 5 years to apply.

So I am asking for honest answers.Based on your experience, would they really DQ me for that action? or am I just giving this to much thought and really working myself up for nothing?

I would DQ you for that action.

[mcsap]

Hello, well lately I've been getting discouraging answers to the people whom I've been asking. I do not know if they are just a bad apple that are trying to discourage me, or if they been honest.

Well, anyways, I am just drowned out with fear on my past. Many are saying they will not take me in because if this act.

Well, I am a waiter, and you know, there is food everywhere. I usually take food and eat there. The manager does not mind, and the cooks do not mind. Also, I discount checks and keep the rest of the change for me.

So if my bill is $23.00 , you change it to $22.00 and keep the buck ? Is this in keeping with store policy ? Does the OWNER know you are doing this ? If not , aren't you STEALING from the owner ?



The manager sometimes gives coupons and gives discounts and he knows what we do.

What is company policy and what does the OWNER say ?

NOw, I know one of the questions would be, have you ever stolen cash from your previous employers? I never stolen cash in my life, but I use the discounts the manager gives me and I keep the change.

Are these discounts company policy or is he allowing you to steal ?



I asked a lot of officers about my situation and they told me "dude, that is nothing. I do not think you even have to mention that. That is not really stealing cash. You are just giving this to much thought. It is your own conscious saying you stole cash; I would say no in the polygraph" I have asked more then one officers (2 beings relatives)

But every time I ask random people, they give me discouraging answers and tell me I have to wait about 5 years to apply.

So I am asking for honest answers.Based on your experience, would they really DQ
me for that action? or am I just giving this to much thought and really working myself up for nothing?

ALL of this self appointed discounts , keeping money you didn't earn even if the manager " approves " sounds a lot like internal theft to me.

If this was your restaurant , would you be ok with your employees giving discounts and adjusting the bill so they get more money and you the owner get less ?

[Citicop]

So that I understand, you are giving a customer a bill for $30, then applying a discount to the bill without their knowledge, charging them $20, and keeping the rest for yourself?

If that is true than you are stealing cash from your employer every time you do it, and it will at least seriously hamper your efforts to enter laws enforcement.

If you'll do it with a check at a restaurant, why not with someone's bond money, or cash seized from a suspect? Why would a police deprmtnet believe that you'd stop after you are hired?

And your manager being involved does not mitigate or excuse it. If you go along with a corrupt officer once hired (and take only a little for yourself) then you're just as dirty as he is.

Under those facts, I would not hire you.

-Citicop.

[MikeG]

I didn't quite understand - when you say "discount checks", I am presuming you are using a coupon that the customer declined to use and you are applying it when they leave and keeping the difference (i.e. the drawer is never short)? That would be slightly different but it is still stealing cash from either the customer or the owner depending on your point of view. There's a reason they have coupons and don't just mark down the price. I doubt the owner made coupons so the staff could make more money. If your manager is doing the discount and you beleive that he is stealing and you are benefitting, that can be just as problematic. The honest thing to do when the manager discounts the check is give it to the customer. If they decide to tip you using their discount, then it's a tip. Otherwise, it's stealing.

But let's assume that is below the level for automatic DQ, you must still disclose it. The fact that you put it in the category of even possibly being theft (asking the question means you question it yourself) means you will need to disclose it before the poly.

I'm not a cop so your mileage may vary.

[willc86]

Alright, I guess the truth always hurts. Anyways, I guess I did a fairly large mistake. I have not done it in a while though, not sure if that will help.

So any kind of theft from your previous employers is usually an instant DQ? There is no chance for me? I mean, I have a clean record, I have a few family members in law enforcement. No tickets, no accidents, never was charged with anything. The only issue is just me discounting checks. Some officers i have talked to said I really have nothing to worry about. What would you guys say.

I almost have a 4 year degree in criminal justice, It would be a shame for me to find out I can not become a police officer just of this non-sense act I committed.

Thanks for the help..

[Citicop]

Alright, I guess the truth always hurts. Anyways, I guess I did a fairly large mistake. I have not done it in a while though, not sure if that will help.

So any kind of theft from your previous employers is usually an instant DQ? There is no chance for me? I mean, I have a clean record, I have a few family members in law enforcement. No tickets, no accidents, never was charged with anything. The only issue is just me discounting checks. Some officers i have talked to said I really have nothing to worry about. What would you guys say.

I almost have a 4 year degree in criminal justice, It would be a shame for me to find out I can not become a police officer just of this non-sense act I committed.

Thanks for the help..

You already heard what we would say. It is stealing.

How often would you say you did it? When was the last time? How much money total do you think you stole from your employer in this way?

And (this is very important to me): How many times did you do this while majoring in Criminal Justice (with the assumed intention to become a Police Officer)?

You weren't charged with a crime because the victim of the crime is not aware of it yet, is my guess.

And you never answered my question from earlier: "Why would a police department think you would not steal money in a similar situation once hired?" If you find $5000 in drug money on a dope dealer... who's going to get upset if you only voucher in $4500? That is exactly what you did as a waiter, so you will have to sell a department on the fact that you will be an honest cop ALL THE TIME when you were aparently a dishonest waiter much of the time.

-Citicop.

[willc86]

maybe about 3 or 4 times. As to how much I took. I have no clue in numbers; It is not much. Probably not more then 100. I can not remember the last time I discounted a check with a coupon. It was a looong time ago. I've been working there for 5 years. So the time varies by a lot.
There is no excuse for why I did it.

I am sure you would know; it is very hard to prove if you will never steal again. Obviously I would know my own self. I have never been these type of individuals that steal and mug people. It was just a stupid mistake I've done just like anyone else.
And when I had the intentions to be an officer, I stopped. never used a coupon, regardless they kept giving me coupons.
Drug money and using a coupon your boss gave you, in my beliefs are day and night differences. Believe me, even though from what I told you, you won't, I wont take a cent if I am fortunate enough to be an officer.

Isn't it the same concept when a restaurant offers officers in uniform free food, or sometimes in my job, you really are not supposed to give "free coffee and drinks" to officers but my boss does it, and they take it; does that justify as stealing? NOt just in my job, but when I do ride-a-long programs, I see it too. In gas stations, the workers offer free drinks and do not have to pay; even though they take out there card, they will not swipe it. My opinion, it is really hard to justify what is stealing when it comes to the restaurant business.

When it comes to a lie detector test, Your own conscious determines what is stealing and what is wrong or right. Obviously I would feel taking drug money is wrong, but when a boss gives me a 5$ gift coupon, I do not see that wrong.

[Citicop]

maybe about 3 or 4 times. As to how much I took. I have no clue in numbers; It is not much. Probably not more then 100. I can not remember the last time I discounted a check with a coupon. It was a looong time ago. I've been working there for 5 years. So the time varies by a lot.
There is no excuse for why I did it.

I am sure you would know; it is very hard to prove if you will never steal again. Obviously I would know my own self. I have never been these type of individuals that steal and mug people. It was just a stupid mistake I've done just like anyone else.
And when I had the intentions to be an officer, I stopped. never used a coupon, regardless they kept giving me coupons.
Drug money and using a coupon your boss gave you, in my beliefs are day and night differences. Believe me, even though from what I told you, you won't, I wont take a cent if I am fortunate enough to be an officer.

Isn't it the same concept when a restaurant offers officers in uniform free food, or sometimes in my job, you really are not supposed to give "free coffee and drinks" to officers but my boss does it, and they take it; does that justify as stealing? NOt just in my job, but when I do ride-a-long programs, I see it too. In gas stations, the workers offer free drinks and do not have to pay; even though they take out there card, they will not swipe it. My opinion, it is really hard to justify what is stealing when it comes to the restaurant business.

When it comes to a lie detector test, Your own conscious determines what is stealing and what is wrong or right. Obviously I would feel taking drug money is wrong, but when a boss gives me a 5$ gift coupon, I do not see that wrong.

How old are you? You said you worked in the restaurant for five years, and you have a 4 year degree in Criminal Justice. So if it has been less than four years since you last stole, then your timeline does not add up.

With a only a few incidents, you might be okay, but there is no guarantee.

And saying "I don't see that as wrong" is not a defense. I don't mean to be overly harsh, but no one cares if you think it was okay or not. It was stealing, plain and simple. The law defines stealing (in my state) as:

A person commits the crime of stealing if he or she appropriates property or services of another with the purpose to deprive him or her thereof, either without his or her consent or by means of deceit or coercion.

You are taking money given to you by a customer to pay a bill, then discounting the bill and keeping the money for yourself. I guarantee that neither the customer nor the owner is aware of this, that makes it theft. If they give you a cupon to use, and you enter the cupon, and then return the money to the customer and explain it to them, and they CHOOSE to give you the extra as a tip, that is just fine. Otherwise, you are stealing under the law, no matter how you feel about it.

[Samuel]

maybe about 3 or 4 times. As to how much I took. I have no clue in numbers; It is not much. Probably not more then 100. I can not remember the last time I discounted a check with a coupon. It was a looong time ago. I've been working there for 5 years. So the time varies by a lot.
There is no excuse for why I did it.

I am sure you would know; it is very hard to prove if you will never steal again. Obviously I would know my own self. I have never been these type of individuals that steal and mug people. It was just a stupid mistake I've done just like anyone else.
And when I had the intentions to be an officer, I stopped. never used a coupon, regardless they kept giving me coupons.
Drug money and using a coupon your boss gave you, in my beliefs are day and night differences. Believe me, even though from what I told you, you won't, I wont take a cent if I am fortunate enough to be an officer.

Isn't it the same concept when a restaurant offers officers in uniform free food, or sometimes in my job, you really are not supposed to give "free coffee and drinks" to officers but my boss does it, and they take it; does that justify as stealing? NOt just in my job, but when I do ride-a-long programs, I see it too. In gas stations, the workers offer free drinks and do not have to pay; even though they take out there card, they will not swipe it. My opinion, it is really hard to justify what is stealing when it comes to the restaurant business.

When it comes to a lie detector test, Your own conscious determines what is stealing and what is wrong or right. Obviously I would feel taking drug money is wrong, but when a boss gives me a 5$ gift coupon, I do not see that wrong.

If you can't tell the differences, you're not even close to being ready for a LE job...

[willc86]

I am going to be 24.

no no, I am about to get my degree. I switched my major. I was doing civil engineering but I started to hang out with a lot of officers and they told me the kind of work they have done so that made me switch it. so when I was majoring in engineering I did the coupon thing a few times. I mean if I would have known that would have made a huge impact, I would have never used those silly coupons. I honestly thought there would be no harm in that, but now I see it.

Believe it or not, sometimes customers gives us coupons to and tells us we can use it.

BUt over the past 5 years..I probably totaled up the coupon use maybe about 4 or 5 times.

So why do most officers (when I asked in person in ride-a-longs) why do they tell me dont even bother saying that in the polygraph; it is technically not stealing "cash" so do not worry about it. That is what about 4 or 5 different officers told me. That is why I made this thread. Not sure what to say. I really meant to cause no harm. I am not a bad kid where I am tempted to steal. I was never tempted, just thought it would be "ok" to do.


Out of your own experience, what is the best advice you can give me? Because I usually do not give up that easily and usually when I want something I do not stop until I get it. So I probably will never change my major again. It is just how I am. So the best thing I can get is advice and what is the best route and actions to take to get hired as an officer.

[Joeyd6]

maybe about 3 or 4 times. As to how much I took. I have no clue in numbers; It is not much. Probably not more then 100.

AKA- $30 to $40 per hit! This a crime! The same as shoplifting or robbing a bank. You go in and take something that is not yours. Does it matter if the value is $5 or $500? NO...IT IS STILL A CRIME!

It was just a stupid mistake I've done just like anyone else.

IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE!!! Mistakes are when you do something with good intent or because you thought it was right and you find out later you were wrong. What you are saying that proves you: 1) do not accept responsibility; 2) faile to understand the serious nature of your crime; and 3) lack maturity.

Isn't it the same concept when a restaurant offers officers in uniform free food, or sometimes in my job, you really are not supposed to give "free coffee and drinks" to officers but my boss does it, and they take it; does that justify as stealing? NOt just in my job, but when I do ride-a-long programs, I see it too. In gas stations, the workers offer free drinks and do not have to pay; even though they take out there card, they will not swipe it. My opinion, it is really hard to justify what is stealing when it comes to the restaurant business.

This right here is nothing but spin. Instead of accepting responsibility for what you did, you try to spin it and talk about others and how if they do it you can. You managers give you coupons to use so the CUSTOMER benefits from a price.......not you to pocket money!

You are DQ for any state police, federal job and the NYPD.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

So why do most officers (when I asked in person in ride-a-longs) why do they tell me dont even bother saying that in the polygraph; it is technically not stealing "cash" so do not worry about it. That is what about 4 or 5 different officers told me. That is why I made this thread. Not sure what to say. I really meant to cause no harm. I am not a bad kid where I am tempted to steal. I was never tempted, just thought it would be "ok" to do.

That's something you'd have to ask those officers, not us. Obviously, you ALSO thought their advice wasn't correct, otherwise you'd have never thought to make a thread about it.

As to using the coupon, the 'ok' thing to do would have been to apply the discount and give the customer the difference. In no way did those 'extra' funds belong to you - they were either the restaurant's or the customer's.

[tex13579]

Out of your own experience, what is the best advice you can give me? Because I usually do not give up that easily and usually when I want something I do not stop until I get it. So I probably will never change my major again. It is just how I am. So the best thing I can get is advice and what is the best route and actions to take to get hired as an officer.

Not a LEO (but I am working on rectifying that situation) but here is my 0.02

I mean if I would have known that would have made a huge impact, I would have never used those silly coupons

This right here speaks volumes to me. Personally I believe that LEOs need to be people that are honest people by nature, not just honest when they are hoping to become a LEO. The fact that you point out that your reason for wishing you never stole this money (dress it up however you want, theft is theft) is because they are now making an impact on your eligibility of becoming a LEO is an indicator of your personality.

Believe it or not, sometimes customers gives us coupons to and tells us we can use it.

Not. If they wanted to tip you, they would tip you. I find it very hard to believe that someone would give you a coupon and then give you enough money to cover the non-discounted price of the meal.

So why do most officers (when I asked in person in ride-a-longs) why do they tell me dont even bother saying that in the polygraph; it is technically not stealing "cash" so do not worry about it. That is what about 4 or 5 different officers told me.

Because every department is different and every officer is different. If they say its no big deal then maybe to their department it isn't a big deal.

That is why I made this thread.

If you already had the answer to your question from 4 or 5 different officers, why did you need more answers from a group of random internet officers? Maybe these 4 or 5 different officers don't really exist?

I was never tempted, just thought it would be "ok" to do.

Error. Does not compute.

Out of your own experience

ain't got none but there it is anyways.



Again, not a LEO, just an objective analysis.

P.S. Mods

If I overstepped my bounds please let me know.


EDIT: Man you guys are fast!

[Chef_Au]

How about the fact you are stealing or frauding your customers. You have reduced their bill and they don't know about it. If you reduced my bill, I'd want that money in my pocket, not in yours.

As far as gratiuities issued to LEO's some places have FORMAL agreements or instruction to staff. Here there are places like McDonalds, local coffee shops etc that will look after a wide range of uniform personnel. Some do it for their own reasons, some do it as a result of you working with your local community and they view you as part of that. THere is no deceipt or dishonesty there, unlike your situation.

You have committed systematic and calculated fraud & Theft.

DQ for me.