Criminal Damage to Property

[Mongo123]

Hi everyone,
I just have a quick question about all the expunged stuff. Here's a little back story. Keep in mind this is the absolute truth. No, if, ands, or buts. If you don't believe me then please don't reply.

When I was fifteen I was convicted of criminal damage to property. I had supposedly burned a barn to the ground. I did not do this. I was a scared kid and was told by the detective I would just get a slap on the wrist if I confessed. I was interrogated for 4 hrs without my parents there. So in short, I was coerced. Subsequently this happened again (not to me) with this same detective on an another more serious case and the detective was forcibly retired without benefits. It was an old barn that was condemned but still up due to the town historical society. By the end of the whole process I was 16. I got probation until 18. I paid $1000 in restitution.

After probation was over, six months later I joined the military. Once my record was expunged though, the military could not find it. Hell, the state police stated they had no record of the incident. So I served 10 years in the military. No disciplinary action what so ever. I have received speeding tickets but none in the past three years.

I have been out two years now. I got my degree in criminal justice and political science. I just graduated last month. I have applied to many departments and agencies.

I recently contacted my lawyer from when I was a kid. When asked about my record and what I needed to divulge on applications he stated “NOTHING.” He said that “by law I can say it never happened.”

Before I get hacked to bits about the whole honesty and integrity and that. That’s not an issue. What I want to know is how this will look with a juvenile felony on my record. If “by law it never happened” as the lawyer says, what the heck do I do when it comes time for the polygraph. I have some significant interviews with both federal and local agencies. Some that are very difficult to get into.

My experience speaks for itself but this is the only thing that might hurt me. When asked about convictions on applications, do I say no? I by no means want to lie on any document but I don’t want to shoot myself in the foot either by divulging the information.

Thanks for your help.

[dinarguy]

Yeah...go ahead and tell them that you have no record.

And when your attorney said that you did not need to disclose anything on applications, he might be correct. Unfortunately, a police department application is completely different than your local Wal-Mart application. They WILL see your record.

[Piggy]

If you apply for a federal position you will be specifically asked about criminal arrests including cases which have been expunged, sealed or stricken from the record.

You don't have to disclose the arrest, but you can also be subject to prosecution for lying during your background investigation.

[Roger Dat]

Well your lawyer obviosuly gave you bad advice if he suggested you take a plea and you were coerced and he did nothing about it but I wasnt there I dont know the circumstances.

Dont divulge a serious arrest like that and kiss your career buh bye

[Sierra]

1. Admit the arrest and conviction. Whether you were coerced, guilty as hell, or innocent is irrelevant at this point. It happened. If found afterwards you will be fired, blacklisted, and possibly prosecuted.

2. Find a different lawyer.

[SnapShawt]

Your lawyer is an idiot. The law enforcement application process is entirely different. Disclose it, end of story.

[DeltaV]

I don't know where you're from, but if I run a criminal history on someone in Florida and they have an expunged record, I get a response that says a part of the subject's record has been expunged pursuant to law. So while there may be no record of the actual charge, there is a record of the expungement.

Also, was the record actually expunged or was it just "sealed" because you were a juvenile at the time? There's a difference. Your lawyer does not have the same access to criminal records as law enforcement agencies do, as those in the private sector are not able to see juvenile records when they conduct background checks like law enforcement agencies.

I also agree with the suggestions to get a new lawyer. He doesn't understand that applying for a law enforcement job is different from other jobs and that law enforcement agencies can ask questions and require applicants to do things that would be unlawful for private employers to do.

[BNTF]

The worst thing a cop can do is lie, period. Do and say everything under the philosophy that someone is always watching. You are of no good to a department if you are caught lying at any point in the process or during your career.

See Giglio vs. the United States for further clarification. Any testimony you give for any case are you involved with can be impreached simply because there is substaniated or credible evidence that you have lied- whether it be under oath, in a job related fashion, etc. If it's been proven and documented, the AUSA or DA has an obligation to provide that to the defense attorney, and all agencies have an obligation to provide that info to the prosecutor. In short, you will be worthless in court, which means worthless towards any type of police work.

It may slide now and get you a job now. But somebody is going to find out someday- a persistant and smart defense attorney or someone who knows your dirt and one day no longer loves you are examples. Then your career will be done. Always tell the truth, no matter the consequences.

[stvstvns]

Depends on what state you're in. In places like Maryland, when an expungement is granted it is totally erased. It's even removed from federal databases such as NCIC.

[Wanabe]

Nothing is ever COMPLETELY erased. If it happened someone has it on file and someone knows about it. So dont lie!.

[Ver1tasA3quitas]

Depends on what state you're in. In places like Maryland, when an expungement is granted it is totally erased. It's even removed from federal databases such as NCIC.

No it's not. To any LEO or anybody else, please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never heard of anything being totally erased, regardless of what state you are in.

[stvstvns]

Don't believe me? Call 304.625.5590 and ask them yourself.

[mcsap]

Don't believe me? Call 304.625.5590 and ask them yourself.

An arrest record can be expunged. The underlying original incident report isn't.

[txinvestigator1]

No it's not. To any LEO or anybody else, please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never heard of anything being totally erased, regardless of what state you are in.

You are wrong. I can point you to the Texas law if you would like.

A little life lesson; just because you never heard of something does not mean it is untrue.

[Ver1tasA3quitas]

TX,
Point well taken. My apologies to you and stvstvns. I just thought that, from what I have heard and read in some resources (including this one), that if a record is expunged, it is still accessible by police and federal agencies. Thank you for the information though.