Thinking About Giving Up On LE.

[DHS1811]

Let me just start by saying what I say below is just me being honest and my direct experience in the law enforcement (LE) profession. I am not being mean or trying to trash the dedicated men and women who put their lives on the line everyday. I just want to lay out my experience and problems I have had and get LE professionals opinions and suggestions because I have had a rough time in this career and really do not know what to do anymore.

Let me start by telling you a little about myself personally. I come from the Midwest and was born into a hard working mining family. My lifestyle was not always as great as it is now but my family always worked hard for everything we had, we appreciated things, and always possessed honesty and integrity. I have always followed the same values of good hard work, fairness, and honesty, and integrity. Since my family worked hard they were able to send me to some pretty good private schools and I received a good education.

Ever since I was young I was also instilled with American values and American history. To this day I can recite the preamble to the Constitution from memory and quote John Adams. I also grew up in the '80s so I was a big fan of G.I. Joe. I always knew I wanted to service my country in some way. When I was a little kid I found out about the United States Secret Service. Even back then, I investigated the agency diligently and as best I could. I even wrote a letter to the White House (they did write back and sent me a nice brochure that I have to this day). So I knew early on that I had to be a really good kid, not get into any trouble, and get good grades if I wanted to be a Special Agent with them one day. That is exactly what I did. I only had a few friends that I knew I could trust and avoided the bad kids and parties. I also joined the high school basketball team and busied myself in a positive way. Immediately after graduating high school I went to a big time state university.

It was one of the top ten Criminal Justice programs in the country. I was your typical college student and it was the best time of my life. However, I was not so typical too. I still never took my eyes off the ball and I avoided the bad kids and illegal parties. I surrounded myself with only good trustworthy people. I had a great time and great grades. The best part of my time in college was when I won an internship with the U.S. Secret Service. I told my college advisor to enroll me only part time. But after the first day in the Field Office I was hooked. I went back to my advisor and said to enroll me overtime. After being there for a little while the Agents took notice and said that I was not a typical intern and they trusted me more and more. So much so, they took me on search warrants, to the firing range, and on protective missions. It was awesome for a 20 year old. I even got to meet the President of the United States. When I left the internship the Special Agent-in-Charge (SAIC) said that when I am old enough if I apply I am good enough to be an Agent.

I finished college on time and graduated WITH HONORS with a bachelor's degree in Criminology and Psychology. I wanted a break from school and wanted to get some work experience. So I quickly figured out what it took to become a police officer in my State. Not much. Basically 18 years old with a pulse. In my State there were 37 State police academies and most of them you could pay (if you had enough scratch) and "put yourself through." This is what I did. The academy that I went to was rated as #3 in the State. So it was pretty good. Many people attending the academy were "sponsored" by an agency and already were hired to be a police officer.

I was there for 6 months and received all sorts of good LE training. I did very well. It was only semi-challenging and some tests I did not even study for and still got an A. I did not graduate top of the class but I know I was close. This is where I started to notice the dark side of LE that know one ever talks about.

There were about 40 people in my class. And over a 6 month period of working closely together you start to find out things about each other. Well, what I started to find out was not good. I started to find out that my LE classmates had very checkered pasts. Some had felony arrests, some had major drug use, none had education, most pretty crappy experience. I was shocked. The only reason they were there and were being "sponsored" was because they were related to someone at their police department. Everyone that was being sponsored through was like a sergeant's son, chief's son, captain's nephew, you name it. I could not believe it. But I just thought, whatever.

I thought that until I started to apply and go on (VERY FEW) interviews. I applied to EVERY LE agency in a two county area. ALL were hiring at the time. MOST just IGNORED my application. I think (if I remember right) I only got a call from two agencies to come on down for an interview. They were your typical panel/oral board interviews. Pretty standard easy questions too. Like, "Define what a police officer does." No big deal and I thought I did pretty well. That was until the next day, when I called to see if I passed or not. Both said, "Sorry, we are not interested in you. You are not qualified to work at our agency and you FAILED the oral board. That is all we are allowed to say." WHAT?!!!! Keep in mind, all they wanted was 18, DL, pulse. I had BA, Internship experience, GRADUATE of the police academy, and was 23, with no background issues. Then I found out that they took an 18 year old kid who was some captain's nephew over me. This happened to me over and over again for several months. I was just IGNORED and they took UNQUALIFIED KIDS over me. I made friends with one guy from my academy class who went to work for one of the big departments in the area. He confirmed the nepotism. He stated that everyone is related to someone in the department. The best part was when he started telling me about what these unqualified kids that they hired were doing once on the job. You name it. Illegal searches, bad traffic tickets, damaging cars. It was comical. I thought they deserved what they got.

I finally got hired and went to work for a "large" police department in a big city that was near where I lived but out of the area of my hometown. It was a great experience for someone who wants to jump right in and get REAL LE experience right away. The place was pretty professional and no one was related. Most of the guys were great except for the one VETERAN guy who said that he joined the force because he just wanted to carry a badge and gun. Again, I was dismayed.

First call first day I had to draw my firearm. I was in the worst neighborhood in the 2nd worst crime ridden city in my State. My first arrest came shortly thereafter and the guy was a "bad dude." Multiple past arrests, battery on LEO, you name it. But I got him cuffed without incident. There were tons of different calls everyday from robbery to homicide and everything in between. My FTO told me that just being there for a few weeks gave me more experience than most officers get over 2 years.

It was the best job I ever had and also the most difficult. I wished I stayed longer.

I was only there for a few months and I got a phone call out of the clear blue from the United States Customs Service (USCS). They said that I might be starting for them in a couple of weeks. At the end of the academy when I was dropping apps at all of the local places that ignored me I also had one in at USCS for their 1811 Special Agent position. I went through their process (slowly) and now they were ready after like 2 years. So I left the police department I was with and started getting ready for Georgia (home of the illustrious Federal Law Enforcement Training Center or FLETC, not "FLEE-TECH").

However, 2 weeks turned into 8 months. The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) reared its ugly head and merged the investigations office from INS with the investigations office of Customs. And then they called us United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE for short. This caused all sorts of problems including financial that still exist to this day. So until they could find their checkbook I sat on the couch being strung along. Once they did, I got a phone call right out of Eagle Eye that said to report to Georgia in a week.

For those of you who do not speak Federal lingo, I took a job with Customs not as the uniformed guy at the border you tell that you were just on vacation and you have nothing to declare. I was a plain clothes detective conducting long term complex criminal investigations on an international scale. I was a BTFA or "Big Time Federal Agent." Man-in-Black, Federal Agent, 1811, Special Agent, Criminal Investigator, Double 0, no wait, that's British. Whatever. I had "made it" and was taking home a nice paycheck that was more than double what I made as a patrol officer. I was also guaranteed to make more than triple in a few short years.

Things were good and I was an 1811 like I wanted to be since I was a kid but just with another agency. I still wanted to switch to the Secret Service one day. After GREAT training for over 6 months at FLETC I was stationed all the way across the country from where I lived in one of America's greatest cities. I was assigned to a unit that went after arms dealers, terrorists, and spies. I was where I wanted to be and I thought that I was spending myself in a worthy cause and making my country and world safer. My coworkers liked and trusted me. One even told me one day that he was glad I was there for search warrants. He said that he felt safer because I really knew what I was doing. While I was there I followed spies and arms dealers and investigated terrorists. I VOLUNTEERED for exotic locals like Washington, New Orleans after Katrina, and Iraq. I also deported criminal aliens, served search warrants with local SWAT teams, and arrested gang members in one of America's most crime ridden cities.

I went into the Customs/INS merger open minded and was even interested how I could use the new Title 8 (INS) authority. However, it turned ugly, and do I mean ugly, and went down hill real quick. I quickly saw how unprofessional MOST INS folks were compared to the Customs folks. The Customs people ALL went to college, had some kind of related prior experience, and were interested in criminal investigations. Most of the INS people I worked with were just unprofessional the way they conducted themselves. I found out that many did not even have any formal criminal investigations training or prior experience. Many were former Border Patrol "officers" who were just promoted up and tossed an Agent badge and told to get to work. Some did not even go to any college. All most were interested in were quick immigration statistics. They had never done nor did they want to do an actual criminal investigation. This was the problem that eventual made me leave the agency.

After 2 years with ICE I was eventual moved to another unit that was all about immigration work. The best part was it was ran by a notoriously BAD supervisor whose bad reputation proceeded them. I was not really prepared to work in this area to begin with since I came from the Customs side of the house and all my training and experience was in Customs criminal investigations. I tried to make the best of it and I went after the people they wanted me to go after. I quickly learned, however, that this was just a stat generating operation and they were cherry picking easy targets so that at the end of the month when Washington would check up on them, they looked busy. Doing real criminal investigations that could make this country and world safer take time, money, and are HARD. So my management was not interested in that. They wanted the easy way out fake the funk and to just collect a paycheck, be home at 5 PM, heck whom I kidding 1 PM, and off on weekends.

I don't have a problem going after bad people and giving them what they deserve but I have a real problem giving good people a hard time. I did not sign-up for that. And that is just what they were doing in this unit. Going after good people making minor mistakes, if that, and slamming them. One defendant's attorney told me that if he wanted to he would sue me personally and my boss. I felt that he was right too. I also felt we violated the 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution and I was not going to be a part of that. I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC and I swore that oath not to my boss or their boss or the SAIC. I did not even swear that oath to the President. I swore an oath to the PEOPLE. I did not think they were just some words we said at the end of training before I got my Commission Book either. I took them seriously.

So I went up the chain of command and simply stated what happened and I did not really want to do it anymore and could you please move me to ANY other unit. Some Customs units really wanted me too because I was well liked. I heard nothing for over a month. Then out of the clear blue one morning I got called into an ASAIC's office and ordered to "turn in my shield and gun." What is this, a movie? They asked me to leave and said that the reason is because I came into the office like 3 times a little late. What? We are Agents. We don't punch a time clock and are on call and out all the time investigating stuff. It's beside the point but I was usually there before most of the office. So needless to say I fought them, legally.

I hired an extremely expensive Federal Government employment attorney. I guess they did not know I can call on lots of money if need be. However, even with lots of money, an expensive attorney, and right on your side, it is still and up hill battle to challenge an agency. They did however, back down and they reversed any and all decisions and I resigned. It came out too that I was a GOOD PERSON and a GOOD AGENT. It had nothing to do with the job. It was because they did not personally like me. I did not want to work at that horrible place they pretend is a law enforcement agency safeguarding the country.

The worst part happened right afterward. Probably 6 months before I left ICE I applied to be a 1811 Special Agent with the U.S. Secret Service, my dream job. I flew through their hiring process. I knocked all the curve balls out of the park they tried to throw at me in the panel interview. I made a mockery out of the polygraph. These guys recommended that I be hired. Then I had to tell them about how I left ICE. Because you want to be honest. I made it all the way to the background and then nothing for a year. I finally received a BQA (there are Better Qualified Applicants than you) letter. I then tried to talk to HR about what happened. However, they would not tell me anything. I then had to FOIA them and I got most of my file. I think some things were withheld for "National Security" reasons. I found out that I was one of the best candidates and then they sent an Agent to my ICE field office. It stated that no one would talk to him so he just gave up. They never really even conducted a background investigation. I wonder to this day if they just said, off the record, wink wink don't hire him.

I then moved back across the country to my home town and again started reapplying to places. This time I got even a worse response. I never even got interviews. I applied to my State police's detective unit. I am in a State where they have separate patrol and detectives. I never heard back and then I finally got a hold of someone and he told me that they lost my app and it is too late to reapply even though I am more than qualified. Something similar also happened when I put in for NCIS and Army CID. I think they have a computer problem in the military. Then the latest happened.

In the wake of the tragedy of Virginia Tech a local university went onto local TV and newspaper crying how they needed more officers and couldn't find any. I had applied to this place a few years before and my app was just ignored. So I thought well maybe Virginia Tech woke them up and I would give them another chance. I applied and surprisingly I received a phone call two weeks later. I went in for an initial interview and the interviewer, a long time LT there, seemed very interested in me. I then a week later got called back for their panel interview. Again, 4 out of the 5 interviewers seemed very pleased with me and my answers. The fifth person just seemed like a rude jerk. He was some Major and he looked like he did not even want to be there. He did not really want to shake my hand when I walked into the room but I made him. Then during the entire interview he played with his phone and appeared to be texting or answering e-mails. I thought that was completely unprofessional and was ready to, right there, tell them because of this guy I am no longer interested in the agency. I should have. After the panel was over I thanked everyone and I made Major Crackberry shake my hand again and it was a very weak handshake.

Then on my way out I see the next guy there for the interview and he is not even wearing a suit. He is in like a polo shirt and khakis. And this is not the first time I have seen this. I have seen it so much I am wondering if I should dress down more. I always "dress to impress." I wore a black pinstriped suit, I had French Cuffs with $1K platinum cufflinks, and a $5K watch. Am I over dressed?

Either way, they gave me a conditional job offer and they put me to the next step which was all the medical and psychological. I passed it all with flying colors. Then I heard nothing for two months. I then received a call from their background investigator who was an officer at the department. He was a complete idiot. He did not even look at my file, let alone brief it, before he called me. He then went on to ask the most idiotic questions. Keep in mind I have been through the highest level most intense Federal background before. I have worked around the President. The best was when he asked if I was just currently on vacation where I live. The most disturbing was when he found me on MySpace and asked why I state on there that I like spending time with my friends and family and how they are my number 1. He asked if I really wanted to work in LE because I said that. WHAT?! Just ridiculous. I now at this point was not sure at all if I wanted to work there.

Almost two more months went by and then I received another rejection letter. Again, very generic and did not tell me anything. So I tried calling and I spoke to a few people including the background guy and they all pretty much said the same thing that they cannot disclose anything to me and they are not required to tell me anything besides that it is a competitive process and they picked someone who was more qualified and more competitive then I . Being a former Federal Agent with complex criminal investigation experience that Jack Bauer would have a wet dream about, I found this hard to believe.

The thing that really irks me too is how agencies and LEOs parade around that their hiring processes are infallible and the ones that make it all the way through are the best and the brightest and most worthy people. And if you did not make it through then you must be a total screw-up and a worthless POS. You know, if they don't have a badge and gun I am not talking to them because there must be something wrong with them. However, I have seen just the opposite sometimes. And it utterly amazed me.

I am just disappointed also when I hear stories about new recruits at other agencies who are getting hired and they have no business in LE. Again, people with criminal histories, drug use, character and judgement questions. And every time now when I hear a story about some LEO somewhere totally screwing up I wonder about his background and how he got the job. I know you are not supposed to Monday morning QB but after the stuff I have seen I can't help it. It makes me want to say to all of you people out there that are applying or thinking about applying to become a LEO if you have a messed up background don't bother. You are just clogging up the system for the rest of us and bringing the profession down. If you used drugs, been arrested for ANY reason, bad credit, cheated in school or on your wife, or are just generally an a**hole who only wants the job so he can carry a badge and gun to get back at society because he got picked on in high school go somewhere else. Join this profession because you really want to serve and help people. The badge and gun and title are just tools and not what matters. Heck, as an Agent I did not even carry my gun sometimes (I knew one guy that lost his). Become a LEO because you genuinely want to leave this place better than you found it and you would do that for FREE. I know I would. How many of you out there would do that?

I have friends that are still Federal Agents that I have worked with and know me well and they cannot figure out why I am having so many problems. They even write into these agencies for me recommending me and it gets me no where fast. I also have other friends who are former LEOs and they are fed up and say law enforcement is a joke and the people in power positions in the profession are just corrupt. I have to regretfully agree in some situations.

So I say to you guys what is the deal with law enforcement? I have been trying here for over 6 years to just get my career established. I still cannot get it done. And it is not like I am a joke either. I am highly educated, trained, and have experience. I have never been arrested, never taken a drug, never stolen anything, etc. Just a falling out with ICE because 1 manager did not like me personally. Does that make me completely unemployable for the rest of my life?

I am not working in law enforcement at the moment and I am not sure if I want to go back. However, I still have this burning desire to serve my country. It is hard to explain, but I have this drive inside of me where I feel the need to help people. When I watch the news and there is a story about an investigation I get this bad feeling that I am just sitting on the sidelines and not in the game. I feel like I am not carrying my out weight and that I let someone down. Anymore though, I am not sure if it is me who is letting my country down, but it is my country who is letting me down.

Thanks for your time. I hope I did not offend anyone because that was not my intention. Also I hope I did not ramble.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

[dkl1986]

wow... um, well to tell you the truth, i didn't feel like reading the entire thing. but i did skim over most of it. the only thing i can think of or comment on (keep in mind that i'm not a cop), is that you need to PICK an agency and stick with it. you're jumping from one place to the next like you're picking which girlfriend is hotter and will satisfy you right here and now.

i'm not sure how your novel ended, but if you get the chance to be with a dept again, STICK WITH IT! you're lucky enough to be in law enforcement, don't take it for granted.

[Citicop]

You hope you didn't ramble?

4350 words
33 paragraphs
5 and 1/2 pages typed

And you HOPE you didn't ramble? Seriously?

Anyway, I skimmed it, here are my impressions.

I would do this job for free if I could. I love my job. However, I can't "call on lots of money if need be" I have never owned a watch worth $5,000, although until recently, I drove a car that was worth about that. I don't have any $1,000 pinstripe suits, although if you add them all together, it may come out even.

Please don't take this personally, but your post seems to show that you have a very high opinion of yourself. You feel you are better qualified than everyone, even before you became an 1811. Nothing that happened is your fault, and you seem to find the faults in every agency you worked for. If I were to believe your post, you could have fixed all the problems at INS, if only they had had the foresight to listen to your genius.

No one here knows what happened (though there are some that could find out if you sent a PM with your personal info) between you and the INS, and no one knows why you can't find another job.

I will say this, LE hiring (as you ought to know) is a competitive process. Meeting the qualifications for the position (as when you first got out of the Academy) may not be enough. It's all well and good for you to THINK you are the best qualified, but clearly the agencies didn't agree. That doesn't make them corrupt, just different.

Now, you may find that your work history (at INS) is a factor. It is entirely possible that they are giving information (whether true or false) about your time there that is preventing you from getting hired. I seriously doubt that they are telling prospective employers "He got fired for not getting along with one manager."

If you have been applying everywhere you can think of for six years and no offers, maybe it IS time to find a new career.

The thing that really irks me too is how agencies and LEOs parade around that their hiring processes are infallible and the ones that make it all the way through are the best and the brightest and most worthy people. And if you did not make it through then you must be a total screw-up and a worthless POS.

This is simply not true in my experience. If an agency has strict hiring standards, then lots of good qualified people will not get hired. If an agency has a loose hiring procedure, then it WILL only keep out the POS's. I ahve said it on here numerous times, don't confuse your suitability for a particular career with your value as a person. My closest friends are not cops and would be horrible at it, but they are no less worthy than I am. I couldn't do their jobs either.

I don't know what you expect anyone here to tell you, to be honest. You seem to have all the answers about everything anyway.

Citicop.

[jb5722]

i also did not read your entire post, because its 6am and i just got done with my shift, what i can tell you, is that if i was lucky enough to get an 1811 position, i would suck it up and deal with whatever crap came with the awesome job. if i didn't like that job, i'd suck it up, keep my mouth shut, and apply to transfer to another agency as an 1811. not every job is going to be perfect, but the privelege of being a federal agent is something thousands of people aspire to, and believe that the honor and privelege that come with that position, are worth dealing with some crappy supervisors and some crappy days. personally, I dont care what happened short of them asking me to sell my family into slave labor or disregard a fellow officer in need of assistance, I would do it and be happy to be able to count myself among the lucky few who attain the 1811 position. just my opinion though.

[Kimble]

DHS1811,

Please check your PM inbox. Due to your claims in the above post and your username, it will be necessary for you to be verified as a sworn LEO to continue your membership on this site.

Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

[Creeker]

WoW.

OK, I read it all.

It took 3 sittings, but I did it.

Jack Bauer? Really, are you all that and a bowl of Grits?

On the plus side, the majority of the spelling was excellent, as was the punctuation, etc. ...better than normal and showed some education.

On the other side, I think you are full of yourself and I don't think I'd like you, despite never meeting you.

IMHO, since you are so adamant that you want to serve and feel like you are on the sidelines, my obvious suggestion is the Military.

It will put you back in touch with reality, rub some idealism off of your attitude, and give you a healthy dose (hopefully) of some humility.

When you are done with your first tour, you will have built something more solid, have a better job history and hopefully a better outlook.

Then look this thread back up and see if you still think the same way with the same attitude.

If so, sign back up and Hey, you'll be a General in no time.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

So, with the longest post in Survivor history you ramble on and on about not being able to get into LE yet you supposedly were a cop for a large department, and then moved on to what some consider the pinnacle of federal service, an 1811 slot? How can you call that, 'trying here for over 6 years to just get my career established'?

You claim you keep being rejected due to claims of nepotism, and you keep quitting due to personality conflicts with one person. If it was really your dream to work in LE, I think you'd be inclined to suck it up a little more.

I have SERIOUS doubts that you've EVER been a sworn officer in any capacity. It just seems you're trying to hard to impress us with your 'experience' and your personal dress code. A $5,000 watch to a job interview? My spidey-sense tingled with that one.

[Nole795]

DHS1811,

Please check your PM inbox. Due to your claims in the above post and your username, it will be necessary for you to be verified as a sworn LEO to continue your membership on this site.

Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

You might as well change it now, because he admits he is no longer an 1811 nor in Law Enforcement.

[Nole795]

DHS1811,

I actually read your novel during my morning coffee, and from your post here is what I get. I hope you have a thick skin:

A. You need to take a step back and quit being judgemental on every LEO that you meet in your hiring process. The only one screwing you is yourself. Your post are condescending and you come off like your above the local agencies because you were an 1811. Guess what, your not. No one cares about the expensive clothes you wear, the jewelry you express, or the fact that you once stood next to the president. It comes down to character and suitability and professionalism. From your post you still got some searching to do.

B. You were terminated from an 1811 position which you later had reversed through arbitration. As an 1811, I know it takes an act of congress to get yourself fired, so you did a hell of a lot more then you posted to get to that point. Any agency that is looking to hire you is going to find out. That is a major hurdle for any candidate in your position. It is the reality of your position.

C. You "rocked the boat" at ICE and went head to head with the administrative staff while looking for another job with USSS. Any monkey agent will tell you that is not a good idea. You should know that any BI will always interview your current supervisor. I don't understand your thinking on why you decided to pursue this type of action. Of course your supervisors are not going to talk highly about you to any BI.

D. Your rambling about defending the constitution and swearing an oath and all that jazz may sound defining to the college intern babe you meet in a bar, but here with verified LEO's it means crap in the context you put it in. Your a disgruntled ex employee who lost his job who is making himself out to be the patriot while his squad of rogue agents are violating the "8th Ammendment." We have heard it before and it does not hold water.

E. You need to look at another profession. You seem bright enough to go to law school or medical school. You already have the self confidence so that won't be an issue. As for law enforcement, from your post, I don't think your cut out for it unless your the SHERIFF. Being a low man on the totem pole is not for you. I am surprised you even got picked up as an 1811 with the attitude you expressed on your first post.

Finally, I am not being mean, I am just being truthful with what you posted. Good luck to you in the private sector. That is where you belong.

[WellAdvised]

Has Chuck Norris left LE?

[Roger Dat]

I didnt read the above because I felt that I was not privleged enough as a lowly patrolman to have read nor the proper intellect to be able to comprehend such penmanship from an obviosly superior human being.

P.S. GET OVER YOURSELF!!!!

carry on that is all.

[Johninaustin]

It took effort, but I finally made it thru your post. Bottom line, I'm quite sure your co-workers were practically giddy to see you go. How you made it thru the psych review is really something I'd like to hear about.

I suggest another career field. One that does not involve constant contact with either the public or co-workers. Good luck, you have a very rough road ahead.

[nypd7748]

Like I said to someone else on another thread today, you must have been a real treat to work with.

[Doogie]

Your post made me laugh.

[rohardi]

I skimmed your post and it looks like you can't stick with ANYTHING....May I suggest If you feel like your all that and a bag of chips and really want to be someone special, Contact one of the Navy's SEAL recruiters/Dive motivators and go to BUDs... The only thing with that is when you feel like quitting the Military, you can't B/C you have a Contract.