Disqualification problems with NYPD and NYCDOC

[itsdalaw1983]

Let's take the PAPD for example because they are notorious for doing this. Throughout the last couple of years, if not more, they have had existing LEO's from NJ police departments, NYPD & other PD's go through their process and obviously take their psyche evaluation which includes the MMPI. Alot of those existing LEO's ended up failing the psyche from the PAPD, despite the fact that they already had passed a psyche evaluation which included the MMPI for their existing departments. How do you explain this? Each department has their own norms or parameters they'd like their police recruits to fall into. They don't want the average person, they want people who are above the average person.[/QUOTE]

True and I agree, I also herd that PAPD and also MTAPD disqualify lots of guys from NYPD and other counties within the tristate areas eventough the passed previous mmpi from thier respective departments. So far I know two people who are on the NYPD that recently got dqed by mt vernon psych department. A third from school who is also on the NYPD is going to be dqed by PAPD because of his BMI makes no sense to go to the medical. Every department is different and has thier own forms and management. Just because i dont fit the model of the NYPD does not mean i fit the model of other departments like Seattle, or miami or right next door in nassau!

[Joeyd6]

Hey Joey,

That's a good explanation of how the MMPI works, but I have to disagree with you as far as your comment "It looks to see if your score is within an acceptable norm of the general functioning population. Yes, the population here in America. Not the law enforcement world, the average person."

The reason why some people fail the psyche exams for one department and then pass for another is because each department has their own norms or parameters that they would like their police recruits to fall into.
Not true at all! The MMPI is a standardized test. There is no subjectivity at all. Period. 100% OBJECTIVE based on your answers at the time. You are within the norm on the ten scales or out.

What is subjective are a few things:
1) How you answer each time you take it! You can be 100% each time, but based on your mood, change a few answers here an there. But overall, unless deviant you will pass.

2) Your background (number of jobs, grades, fights, drug use, etc....). The oral interview is where the psychologist an look at your results and decide if your traits fit their image of a LEO for the agency and conditions. And lest be honest, what it takes to be a LEO at the NYPD or LAPD is not the same as small town mid-America.

3) The way you act at a interview. Become defensive when questioned about things that relate to an area you scored high on and they think there is more to it.

Let's take the PAPD for example because they are notorious for doing this. Throughout the last couple of years, if not more, they have had existing LEO's from NJ police departments, NYPD & other PD's go through their process and obviously take their psyche evaluation which includes the MMPI. A lot of those existing LEO's ended up failing the psyche from the PAPD, despite the fact that they already had passed a psyche evaluation which included the MMPI for their existing departments. How do you explain this?

Cops are jaded people after time on the job. I truly believe that anybody who is a NYPD comes on normal and leaves with some issue. The crap seen and micromanaging and paramilitary issue, etc.... all add up. Scores on the MMPI will not be the same as when hired.

Additionally, and more weighted a lot of those trying to move have low activity at work, low ratings, CCRB's, and blow the oral part of the psych. They always ask why are you leaving. Most are idiots and fly off on a tanget with "The pay is crap and I am working three jobs." compared to being composed and showing maturity by saying something like "I think it will provide a challenge and provide a better quality of life for me and my family." etc... Those are all looked at by the psych as they show "attitude, motivation, outlook, etc..."

The MMPI is 100% objective. The answers you give, how you answer the oral, and your actual background mixed with the psychologist and their views is what is subjective and can make or break you. Passing the written is the easy part. passing the oral is the hard part!

[Joeyd6]

[quote=itsdalaw1983;937940]... he told me just come back down next thursday and retake your psych and dont mention anything on paper about being dqed by the NYPD,
If hired, you will end up fired during your probation when the paperwork is checked later on. Not good or ethical advice and only setting you up for a major firing later on.

... Any way back to nypd, im going to get that psych appealed because it looks bad, eventhough i dont want to join NYPD anymore its just better to have this psychs appealed. Yeah im not paying much for psychologists and lawyers because I'm close friends with them at my doorman job and there willing to help.

Good luck with that. You get what you pay for. And don't think one minute any psychologist will get you a win. There have been TWO positive appeal since 2001. TWO....both with the same psychologist, a former Head NYPD CHief Psychologist who charges around $4K.

[itsdalaw1983]

[quote=Joeyd6;937946]

... he told me just come back down next thursday and retake your psych and dont mention anything on paper about being dqed by the NYPD,
If hired, you will end up fired during your probation when the paperwork is checked later on. Not good or ethical advice and only setting you up for a major firing later on.


Good luck with that. You get what you pay for. And don't think one minute any psychologist will get you a win. There have been TWO positive appeal since 2001. TWO....both with the same psychologist, a former Head NYPD CHief Psychologist who charges around $4K.

^^^^^ theres only been two positive appeals with a psychologists? Were did you get that information from wikipedia?

a tenant at my job is a psychologists and I spoke to her about what happened with the NYPD. She said she is willing to help with my appeals, because she helps people who seek law enforcement jobs with thier appeals. One of her patients is actually a cop who has been on medical leave for 8 months because he shot and killed a fleeing supspect out in yonkers. The lawyer who is going to do my appeal used to be on a board taht did appeals for TSA angents and U.S. Customs and boarder portral that were on psych or med review. The lawyer is not going to charge me much, but its better then anything. I came across an off duty officer at my niegborhood gym were I work out at, I spoke to him about being dqed and he was Dqed for medical reasons, having diabetes. the cop used a legal aid lawyer and did not pay anything towards the legal aid for his appeal. All he paid was 2 bucks for a metro card to go to civic building in city hall were they were doing the appeals and that was it, case close got in the academy 8 months later!

[lax854]

[quote=itsdalaw1983;938076]

^^^^^ theres only been two positive appeals with a psychologists? Were did you get that information from wikipedia?

a tenant at my job is a psychologists and I spoke to her about what happened with the NYPD. She said she is willing to help with my appeals, because she helps people who seek law enforcement jobs with thier appeals. One of her patients is actually a cop who has been on medical leave for 8 months because he shot and killed a fleeing supspect out in yonkers. The lawyer who is going to do my appeal used to be on a board taht did appeals for TSA angents and U.S. Customs and boarder portral that were on psych or med review. The lawyer is not going to charge me much, but its better then anything. I came across an off duty officer at my niegborhood gym were I work out at, I spoke to him about being dqed and he was Dqed for medical reasons, having diabetes. the cop used a legal aid lawyer and did not pay anything towards the legal aid for his appeal. All he paid was 2 bucks for a metro card to go to civic building in city hall were they were doing the appeals and that was it, case close got in the academy 8 months later!

joey is speaking with years of experience and working at APD. Medical review and Psych review are two different beasts! i know plenty of ppl who appealed their review...and guess what! 2 years later and 3 thousand dollars later, they are still in the same position they were when they got the dq letter!

[Roger Dat]

This yahoo needs a time out. Has yet to say anything constructive, talkes out his blow hole about things he has no knowledge of, and THEN attacks veteran members of this board who have done nothing but help people on this forum.

[Joeyd6]

He'll see. He knows everyone and has all this great info. Lets see where he is in six months and then a year. He will still be appealing!

Let see.....if my BWM fails me, and no dealership around, do I buy the parts myself, have my buddy who fixes engines do that work, another who does electrical work on that part, bring another guy in to do body work and another to paint it.........or.....do I just go to the private shop down the street where the owner/operator used to work at a BMW dealership for 20 years.

Me? I would go to to the guy where it is all under one roof and he used to work for the company, and especially knows the ins and outs. Just like there is only ONE guy who has been successful with the two appeal, who just so happens to have worked as the Chief psychologist and wrote all of the current policies and procedures used by the department for 15 years.

But hey, good luck on your hack job. And no need to come here and ask questions. You seem to know everyone and have the answers.

[CelticSmackdown]

[quote=itsdalaw1983;938076]

^^^^^ theres only been two positive appeals with a psychologists? Were did you get that information from wikipedia?

a tenant at my job is a psychologists and I spoke to her about what happened with the NYPD. She said she is willing to help with my appeals, because she helps people who seek law enforcement jobs with thier appeals. One of her patients is actually a cop who has been on medical leave for 8 months because he shot and killed a fleeing supspect out in yonkers. The lawyer who is going to do my appeal used to be on a board taht did appeals for TSA angents and U.S. Customs and boarder portral that were on psych or med review. The lawyer is not going to charge me much, but its better then anything. I came across an off duty officer at my niegborhood gym were I work out at, I spoke to him about being dqed and he was Dqed for medical reasons, having diabetes. the cop used a legal aid lawyer and did not pay anything towards the legal aid for his appeal. All he paid was 2 bucks for a metro card to go to civic building in city hall were they were doing the appeals and that was it, case close got in the academy 8 months later!

GOOD LUCK!