What's better?

[scan]

In front of the hiring people, what's better?
Having college education or military experience(was in or are in the military)??????

[mcsap]

In our civil service hiring process , all applicants take the same tests. After it is all said and done, veterans get 10 points added to their score. Grads get nothing added. When we go to hire, we have to start with the top five allowing us to skip aomeone who made it to #1 but may have some trait we don't like. Or , it allows us to pick out the grads if we do like them.

Acknowledging that I could be biased, if I had my choice if hiring grads or vets, I'll take the vets. Police business is para-military. Officers need to be able to take orders and carry them out. Grads are not accustomed to this and are more likely to question the order prior to fulfilling it.

Just my 2 cents.

[zander_zye]

It really depends on the hiring practices of departments Scan.

Do I think that military veterans are preferable to college graduates? I think that depends on the military veteran that you are referring to.

[gdowkpc]

Portland Police required a bachelor's degree for many years but recently lowered it to an associate's because of the nationwide hiring difficulties. While there is an educational requirement, there is no military requirement and no education waiver's are given with military experience. Time spent in the military, even in a law enforcement unit, do no go towards lateral pay scaling.

While this issue can be heavily debated, I can see where ability to take orders is a must, but this can be trained. Police work is much more than taking orders and most of the time you are left to do your own thing anyways. I go many days with no contact with my supervisor once roll call is completed.

Police officers must have many qualities, and many cannot be taught. Some qualities may be brought out my military experience, and some may be brought out by educational experiences. Some are just in you.

[doubleup]

Or....you can be like my future self and have 8 yrs military experience, a top secret clearance, plus 1 associates and 2 bachelors at the age of 25. :p

[mummer43]

A lot of people don't agree with giving veterans 10 points on a test. What's more valuable to a department, someone who went to college and worked hard and has far more knowledge about his chosen field, or someone who joined the military and drove a truck for a couple years? This is a debate that could go on and on.

[txinvestigator1]

Originally posted by mummer43
A lot of people don't agree with giving veterans 10 points on a test. What's more valuable to a department, someone who went to college and worked hard and has far more knowledge about his chosen field, or someone who joined the military and drove a truck for a couple years? This is a debate that could go on and on.

That is laughable. Those are the only two choices? How about these?

Someone who went to college and coasted through a bunch of liberal arts classes while living at home with mom and dad, or somone who joined the military and learned about chain of command, personal responsibility, honor, dignity and sacrifice while gaining expert knowledege about his trade?

Please.............

[metallicat]

Is one of them really better? This is all a matter of personal opinion. I will only have college, but wish I was 18 again so I could join the military for a couple of years. I don't think there is a way that anyone can say one is better over another, simply because of all the different possibilities within both college or the military.

[Stump]

Mummer,
I am one of those people who don't agree with what you are saying. I was never in the military, but I think that veterans should get some extra benefits like points. They gave up (at least) 4 years of their lives to help defend this country. I know that military people get schooling paid for by the government, but they deserve to get an extra boost when applying for jobs.

There is a HUGE difference between book smarts and street smarts.

[Hightower]

Originally posted by gdowkpc
Portland Police required a bachelor's degree for many years but recently lowered it to an associate's because of the nationwide hiring difficulties. While there is an educational requirement, there is no military requirement and no education waiver's are given with military experience. Time spent in the military, even in a law enforcement unit, do no go towards lateral pay scaling.

You mean to tell me that there are states out there that have Difficulty in finding cops. That actually blows me away. It is extremely competitive in Minnesota to get a LEO position.

And to stick with the topic of this thread...

All cops in the state are required to get a college degree. And our department DOES give veterans preference points.

Hightower

[mummer43]

Originally posted by txinvestigator1
That is laughable. Those are the only two choices? How about these?

Someone who went to college and coasted through a bunch of liberal arts classes while living at home with mom and dad, or somone who joined the military and learned about chain of command, personal responsibility, honor, dignity and sacrifice while gaining expert knowledege about his trade?

Please.............

I totally agree with you, I was just presenting a side of the argument that people often make. I guess I should have wrote that in my original post.

Your post can also be turned around to compare someone who joins the military, doesn't serve during a conflict, works in a job that has nothing to do with law enforcement and doesn't care about the chain of command or honor against a kid who works his way through college and takes all the pertinent courses and really wants to get into law enforcement but is beaten out by the guy I mentioned above because he was in the military for a couple years and got 10 points more on the test.

[mummer43]

Originally posted by Stump
Mummer,
I am one of those people who don't agree with what you are saying. I was never in the military, but I think that veterans should get some extra benefits like points. They gave up (at least) 4 years of their lives to help defend this country. I know that military people get schooling paid for by the government, but they deserve to get an extra boost when applying for jobs.

There is a HUGE difference between book smarts and street smarts.

If you re-read my original post, I said that a lot of people feel that way. I didn't say I felt that way. I have the UTMOST respect for the men and women who fight for us and who serve their country and I feel they deserve whatever benefits they get.

Also, do you think that all people who went to college are just book smart and can't be street smart? I dispute that remark.

[mcsap]

We are required to give Veterans preference points because we abide by the civil service hiring rules. Don't know if we would do so if we didn't have to but it doesn't really matter at this point.

I think there should be some sort of benefit for giving up 4 yrs of my life working crazy hours with NO overtime and sometimes dangerous conditions. I was gald that I was able to get my veterans preference. Our college grads get paid more so I suspect that it evens out in the end.

[Edd]

I'm glad I'm past the point of judging whether A VETERAN deserves a extra 10 points for serving the country we now live in and have the freedom to post this debate in. Maybe a American history degree would be a good qualification for a entry LEO exam. One thing I learned even a truck driver in the military is important, if one. I need ammo and don't have any or I'm hungry and been in a trench for 8 day with out food. Guess who or what im waiting on. that truck driver with my supplies. Peace time, who picks that, You served your country (nobody knows what tomorrow brings) Will there ever be a debate on this. "GOD" you better hope not.