one last ISP question

[Ragnarok]

This is such a stupid question, but I have to ask. The ISP application asks, "Have you stolen ANY property from an employer?", and then the amounts, $0-$50, $50-$100, etc.

My answer is probably "Yes", I would assume it is yes for most people.

I printed out the directions to the ISP testing center using the company printer, technically stealing toner, and 3 sheets of paper.

I have also taken, knowingly or unknowingly, paper clips, paper, binder clips, pens.

Technically, this would be stolen property, so I think my answer is yes, but I don't want to give the impression that I purposely stole money or high-valued items, such as petty cash, laptops, equipment, etc.

So, is it yes?

[md123]

yes, $0-$50

[S43riff]

Do you have a policy at work that under NO circumstances can you use for your own use...Offices know there will be things such as paper clips, staples and ordinary things like that for normal use that will leave their premisses. Thats not stealing...Did you take their toner cartridge home, a box of staples, a ream of paper?
If you went to your boss and said...I have to make a copy of this for me,,,would he say no?

[md123]

S43riff is probably right. There is a difference between a pen, and a box of pens, or a few copies vs. a ream of paper.

[DolphinTattoos]

But, if you didn't pay for it, and took it, then doesn't it become theft?

[mr_chuck]

I answered yes to that question and explained when asked by my BI. S43riff is right, but I think that it is better to be able to explain it than have the BI think that you were trying to hide it.

[phantasm]

But, if you didn't pay for it, and took it, then doesn't it become theft?

If you have permission for personal use, then you should be fine. I faxed some paperwork to my BI from my old company's fax machine, and have used their printer at various times to make copies of stuff for personal use. I didn't, and still don't consider it a larcency because I was not doing it against any company policy. If a company police says "no personal use" and you use it anyway, then it may be petit or grand larcency, but I really wouldn't be too anxious about making a few printouts or copies. My old company was a swimming pool distributor. If I took something that my company purchased, such as pool chemicals, that'd be theft, but not a copy or 2.

BUT answer how you truly feel. If you truly feel it was theft, and you can articulate it, and pass a polygraph saying that, then go with it.

[Gooch]

This is such a stupid question, but I have to ask. The ISP application asks, "Have you stolen ANY property from an employer?", and then the amounts, $0-$50, $50-$100, etc.

The key word is stolen. Don't read too much into it. If you stole, mark "yes". If you took a couple of pens and made some non work-related copies of documents then I would answer "no". Generally, they are not concerned with minor office supplies.

[Ragnarok]

I chose no. I have not violated any "no personal use" policy. The only thing I've used is toner. I provided my own paper.

Other than that, I have ocassionally left a pen in my pocket. But I have never intentionally taken office supplies or other items from the office.

Thanks, again!

[md123]

I chose no. I have not violated any "no personal use" policy. The only thing I've used is toner. I provided my own paper.

Other than that, I have ocassionally left a pen in my pocket. But I have never intentionally taken office supplies or other items from the office.

Thanks, again!

Thats what I did too. When asked about it I did say that a pen here and there came home with me, but that it certainly wasn't anythinig my boss would have minded. Since that was the truth it was not an issue.

[deskjockey]

What about downloading music a few years ago? Is theft of intellectual property supposed to be noted, and if so is it considered along the same lines of theft by shoplifting, etc? How about loading illegal software on a computer? Is that considered theft if you don't have the proper license to operate the software?

[md123]

What about downloading music a few years ago? Is theft of intellectual property supposed to be noted, and if so is it considered along the same lines of theft by shoplifting, etc? How about loading illegal software on a computer? Is that considered theft if you don't have the proper license to operate the software?

Yeah, I would stop that stuff if I were you.

[deskjockey]

I haven't downloaded music since 99, but what I am wondering is if I am asked if I ever stole anything, should I mention that I downloaded music, and if so, is it looked at as badly as someone who shoplifted or stole tangible goods?

[md123]

This is just my opinion. I am not a cop, but a candidate who has completed the BI, POLY, and all that.

I think it depends on more than just what you stole, and when you stole it, but also how you percieve what you've done as well. On one hand stealing a candy bar at age 12 for whatever reason might be "just as bad" as downloading Led Zeppelin, which is not quite as bad as downloading Michael Bolton, but that's another issue all together. My point is that many people who fill out these forms will have stolen something. Yes, there is a big difference between armed robbery, and sholifting deodorant for a thrill at age 11. But, all things being equal, it is very important to be honest. I can't see someone being DQ'd for downloading a song (or a gig of songs) in 1999. Now if you explain that you dont think there is anything wrong with violating intellectual property law you might have a problem - but one of the reasons they ask these questions is to guage how honest you are willing to be with them. If you reveal all and be honest then that will come through and it will be percieved as an attribute. If you weave a web of deception and dishonesty then [insert something witty and dark here].

[Ragnarok]

.....How about loading illegal software on a computer? Is that considered theft if you don't have the proper license to operate the software?

Now I'm in IT and this is one of my biggest peeves. It's is illegal, in violation of copyright and licensing laws. The Software Publishing Association can slap you with a $100,000 fine for each violation, REGARDLESS of the value of the software.

I have idiot users coming in here day and and day out, installing crap on their work PCs, something they brought from home and just assume it's OK to install here as well, since they paid for it. They apparently didn't read the fine print that stated "this is a single seat license and may only be installed on one PC at a time. Do not make illegal copies of this disk, or allow others to access it."

I couldn't care less about what people do at home, but when they bring it to the business, it's my problem. A disgruntled employee contacts the SPA, we get audited and they find unlicensed software....that's a very hefty fine.

Sorry....I just had to uninstall a bunch of junk from one of these users.....