Termination incident (lengthy but interesting)

[Z28Pilot]

I wanted to ask you a question regarding employment history for the BI. You seem to be stand up people from what I have seen on this forum and thought I would share this with you and ask your response.

I was terminated from a professional position at a state university here in Texas this past September.

The official reason was misconduct. However, the director I worked for and several others in this college fabricated information to warrant the termination in order to save a large monetary donation from a corporate employer whom I had pissed off by not showing them preferential treatment in recruiting our students, and they in turn embellished the event in retaliation against me. I later discovered that she (the recruiter) had done this before to save her *** and had been fired from one company and hired for the same position at another.

There is no sexual misconduct, theft, etc... but the damage is to my character, integrity and morals in their stating I was hitting on students and a recruiter, asking them to go out to lunch with me, to go out for drinks, and offering one a "massage". These events did not happen but I have no way to prove them as all names have been retained from me for so-called retaliation issues and I am not allowed to even address who these people are, even though I have no doubt who the recruiter is. (for the record, I do not even drink, have always had friendly relationships with students, can provide several pieces of communication from students, faculty, and employers sharing their satisfaction with my work, and I never asked anyone for anything that would be construed as unprofessional)

I was never given notice, a chance to answer to any accusation or charge, allowed to defend myself, etc... until after the termination had taken place and then I was only allowed a rebuttal to be enclosed in my personnel file.

Every person who remains a friend of mine or friendly has stated off the record for fear of retaliation by the admin that this admin is known for doing this kind of thing and that I am not the first they have screwed over. I have since spoken with several attorneys and all have said move on, you can't fight them, they have covered their ***, and they are a state university with you as an at will employee who was fired at will, you have no recourse. (of course this is a small city that is dependent upon the university as well)

My performance evaluation was perfect and I had no incidents of counseling for any behavior or anything like that before.

I have since been on unemployment and am seeking out what else I have always wanted to do. LE is a career I have always respected and now I think that this is the perfect time for me to make a step towards it. I believe a door closes and another opens.

My background is average beyond that: honorable discharge, college ed, very happily married to a great wife, no kids, excellent credit, new home, meet all other requirements as posed by the app from the department I am applying at. What are your thoughts on the background in regard to my termination?

I was thinking that I could write a complete explanation such as this to share with the BI since this will undoubtedly come up and I do not want to be seen as lying or withholding, but I fear that I have no way to present myself fairly after what these people did to save the donation that is being presented to their new college building fund ($150,000 over five years).

The university has stated that they only release salary, dates of employment, title, etc.. to anyone and they would not release anything further to the unemplyment agency here.

What are your thoughts on this as it pertains to a BI? I truly appreciate your time and effort and have the greatest respect for the LE profession and those within it.

[Chgojock007]

Be 100% honest and see what happens.

[Z28Pilot]

Be 100% honest and see what happens.

I have no reason to less than 100% honest and just hope that the BI is able to see that this was a pretty unique incident in which I was not able to defend myself, answer to, etc.. at all and they basically sacrificed me for their cash. I think it sucks that I have no way to prove my innocence in this and they have every piece of evidence they could think of to use against me and in covering their ***. Hopefully a BI will understand and see this.

Thanks for your response!

[Z28Pilot]

Anyone else want to weigh in on this situation?

Thanks.

[md123]

I am going through the process for the NYSP - and am almost done.

The issue of 'character' has come up time and time again during my BI, polygraph, psychological, even the medical to some extent. This is something you are definitely going to have to explain at some point. A termination from employment will immediately raise a red flag in this dept.

You say that this termination was unfair. This may be the case but you have to go into it realizing that a background investigator (BI) is going to be skeptical. Even if you were lying about this, and you deserved to get fired (not saying this is the case) a liar would probably say the same thing you are saying: 'It was them and not me.'

If I were you I would bring this up when the time is right - I am sure you will be asked about this or be given the opportunity to talk about this with your BI and others. Avoid the talk which will make it sound as if you feel like some sort of victim. Instead, concentrate on the facts, the references you can offer who were close to the situation - those willing to attest to your character, and tell the BI to decide for him/herself, but to please keep an open mind, etc. . .

Something like this is exactly why BI's are employed to exercise their judgement and to treat people on a case by case basis. There is no machine which reads your application and spits out a rejection. Instead it will be reviewed by a reasonable human being. That is all the hope I can offer.

[fatboyjim154]

Tell your BI, and make sure you explain to him that you have been denied the names of the students.
Have you got the refusal in writing, if not get it. I would write to your former employer and 'officially ask' for the names to be provided.
Keep them in the dark as to the reasons why you want them, so they can't pre-empt your application & and deny refusal at a later date.

If they refuse again, go through the courts, get a lawyer. It'll cost you, but they'll have to, admit to lying or make sh..., stuff up.

[txinvestigator1]

File a Public Records request and get copies of everything regarding this.

[Z28Pilot]

File a Public Records request and get copies of everything regarding this.

I have gained the copy of my personnel file that has the supposed statements the student(s) made. All names have been removed so I supposedly can not retaliate against them. (not that I would anyways)

Should I share these docs with the BI when provided the opportunity along with a copy of my rebuttal? (the rebuttal was written about a month or so afterwards as I did was not provided the file until several weeks after I was terminated.)

I have a copy of my performance evaluation as well showing excellent performance with no counseling or anything like that too.

I have no reason what so ever to lie nor would I. I believe that the LE profession is about integrity, character, honesty, and using these traits to serve society in a positive manner that allows for a safer world for all of us. That is my attraction and reasoning to become involved, to participate in a career where I might make a difference of some sort.

I'm really not trying to play helpless victim, however I was never even provided an opportunity to answer to, face any person who supposedly complained, or defend any action whatsoever. Hell, I never even saw this coming to begin with!

I have spoke with several different attorneys trying to establish a case, all of whom have all shared that "they covered their *** pretty well, stuck it in yours even better, and you have no recourse against a state institution this large with its resources, move on with your life and good luck." Well that's what I'm trying to do and it seems as though this may bite me again.

[Z28Pilot]

By the way, I am sincerely appreciating all of the input and advice on this matter.

Thank you.

g

[txinvestigator1]

I would not be happy with a redacted copy. You have a right to know who your accusor and witnesses were. I would file an opens record request and demand full disclosure.

[Star]

I would not be happy with a redacted copy. You have a right to know who your accusor and witnesses were. I would file an opens record request and demand full disclosure.

Yes, get statements from all those people who you are calling your friends. You need to get a complete summary, like Tx said for your BI but I want to tell you that it won't be easy because you have "baggage". The best way to clear this up is get an attorney and sue those people for falsely accusing you. Reverse the decision altogether. There are so many people on the roster these days that departments don't want people with baggage. Just my opinion and just trying to help you out.

[Nole795]

This is definately going to be a major obstacle in you getting processed by a police department. Being fired from any job is frowned upon, but for the reasons you stated, touching and flirting with students, is a serious issue that will have to be addressed. Every police department is different in what they look for in an applicant. All I can say is from my experience your chances are slim.

If I were in your shoes, I would do as Txinvestigator advised, get all the documents related to your case. I would also get some contacts at your last job that you can use as a reference.

I'm surprised to hear that civil attorneys didn't want to take your case.

[Z28Pilot]

This is definately going to be a major obstacle in you getting processed by a police department. Being fired from any job is frowned upon, but for the reasons you stated, touching and flirting with students, is a serious issue that will have to be addressed. Every police department is different in what they look for in an applicant. All I can say is from my experience your chances are slim.

If I were in your shoes, I would do as Txinvestigator advised, get all the documents related to your case. I would also get some contacts at your last job that you can use as a reference.

I'm surprised to hear that civil attorneys didn't want to take your case.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! There was no touching of students, no sexual misconduct at all, just misconduct in general considered unprofessional.

I have a couple of professors who have written outstanding letters of recommendation for me and who are pissed because I was doing an excellent job and they were happy with me and what I was doing for their area of the college.

(for what its worth, I used to recruit coprorations such as big four acct firms, banks, fortune 500, etc.. to come to this college and recruit these students. I would also coach and mentor students on how to interview, write a resume, dress for an interview, etc...Excellent evals, many letters of thanks and praise from corporations, students, parents, etc...)

No attorney here would touch this as explained previousely. This city has 200,000 people in it and the university is the largest employer and the only real reason the city exists, so everyone is connected to this university in one way or another. Money is another reason, don't have much left, and I'm trying like hell to find a job to keep me busy until I am hopefully able to begin a career in LE. That's also the reason I'm looking at a department in another state and moving to get away from the entire place.

I am going to write a formal letter asking for names of my accusers, and as I am sure they will, save the response that says to get lost. I also have a very lengthy rebuttal written after the fact regarding the supposed misconduct to which there has been no response to by the university.

I'm thinking at this point of having the information prepared to hand over if and when they ask for it and try not to make a big deal out of it. No need to hide anything, but what can I do against a major university that has monetary donors in its pocket and the ability to manipulate just about anyone they want to? (and have)

Yep I was terminated from a job. (I'm sure I'm not the first)
Why? Misconduct.
What did you do? Supposedly acted unprofessionally, never was allowed to confront accusers, was provided no evidence other than supposed written statements with no names attached, wasn't allowed to any allegations, etc...didn't have the cash to pursue this legally and no attorney would touch it (I'm thinking that it would be just to hard to prove and win) I didn't do anything wrong, but politics and the bs of the large liberal university system ruled and I took a kick in the nuts, so I'm moving on with my life...

Again I appreciate your input and will be happy to share the outcome of what happens.

[Star]

Document, document, document! Get written statements, have the notarized, etc. You know the rules. But if an attorney there won't touch it, I would check elsewhere. JMO, ya know? That's a lot to be accused of. I would try to clear it in whatever way I could.