Advice...

[mxwelch]

This is primarily a question for LEO's, especially if we have any BI on the board, but all advice is welcome. Here is my situation: I applied to the state police and passed all the tests, physical, poly, etc... Well I was DQed for a mistake about 6 years ago. I, (and I am ashamed of it) lied to a judge to get out of a ticket. I also called the court to set things right later on. I needed a clear conscience. Well I contacted two county pd's and told them up from my situation and asked if it would it prohibit me from a job. I get a response back from one of them and they tell me that they won't say not to apply but it will be a serious matter for the BI. I could have hid it and got away with it, but I made up my mind after that incident to never do it again. I hope it doesn't prohibit me from ever getting a job in LE but if it does I will accept the consequences. Any thoughts?

[Babysmamadrama]

Keep going for it, this is not unsurmountable in my opinion. But it is going to be something you will always have to deal with. It will be an integrity issue. Where you ever charged with anything?

[mxwelch]

Keep going for it, this is not unsurmountable in my opinion. But it is going to be something you will always have to deal with. It will be an integrity issue. Where you ever charged with anything?

No it was never even found out. I just couldn't live with myself for doing it. I called the court and they told me to forget about it.

[Babysmamadrama]

Ok, so no worry about a perjury case. Just continue to be honest. You may have done very well and that one point was the one sticking point that would keep you from beating everyone else out. It will not always be so, I would think. Drive on with a hardon. There are still a ton of departments out there. If you relocated to Richmond for awhile you would get a ton of experience and after about 5 years, you could go just about anywhere.

[txinvestigator1]

This is primarily a question for LEO's, especially if we have any BI on the board, but all advice is welcome. Here is my situation: I applied to the state police and passed all the tests, physical, poly, etc... Well I was DQed for a mistake about 6 years ago. I, (and I am ashamed of it) lied to a judge to get out of a ticket. I also called the court to set things right later on. I needed a clear conscience. Well I contacted two county pd's and told them up from my situation and asked if it would it prohibit me from a job. I get a response back from one of them and they tell me that they won't say not to apply but it will be a serious matter for the BI. I could have hid it and got away with it, but I made up my mind after that incident to never do it again. I hope it doesn't prohibit me from ever getting a job in LE but if it does I will accept the consequences. Any thoughts?

STOP calling it a mistake. That shows you somehow don't believe it was really your fault, or that it was not your character at the time.

Show that you have changed and learned the error of your ways. If there is nothing else in your background, you should be OK.

[JD45]

As mentioned before, its an integrity issue. I don't want to say you'll never have a chance, but it will be an obstacle for you to overcome.

The main reason I say that is, if you ever have to testify and for whatever reason your personell file is pulled and they saw that you lied to a judge, they can use that against you.

Just the same for us, if we lie before a judge, our career is instantly over.

[mxwelch]

STOP calling it a mistake. That shows you somehow don't believe it was really your fault, or that it was not your character at the time.

Show that you have changed and learned the error of your ways. If there is nothing else in your background, you should be OK.

It was a mistake, not an accident. I didn't accidentally lie. I was completely at fault. That's why it bothered me so bad.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

As a BI, I would have a serious problem with your admission. That you came clean is GREAT, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't change that you did it in the first place.

Your courtroom credibility would be shot before you even started.

[txinvestigator1]

It was a mistake, not an accident. I didn't accidentally lie. I was completely at fault. That's why it bothered me so bad.

Whatever. A mistake would be that you said what you THOUGHT to be the truth, but in fact was not.

I am telling you how BI's will react when you call it a mistake, and I told you how it is perceived by others.

But do whatever you want, feel free to ignore me. You asked for thoughts, and the you argue with those that you don't like.

You can simply ignore what I said, but arguing with me about it changes nothing. Don't ask if you will not accept opinions with which you disagree.

BTW, what will you answer if, as a LEO, you are asked on the witness stand if you have ever lied under oath?

[mxwelch]

Whatever. A mistake would be that you said what you THOUGHT to be the truth, but in fact was not.

I am telling you how BI's will react when you call it a mistake, and I told you how it is perceived by others.

But do whatever you want, feel free to ignore me. You asked for thoughts, and the you argue with those that you don't like.

You can simply ignore what I said, but arguing with me about it changes nothing. Don't ask if you will not accept opinions with which you disagree.

BTW, what will you answer if, as a LEO, you are asked on the witness stand if you have ever lied under oath?

I won't ignore you, and I see your point. If that's the way it is, than so be it. Thanks.

[txinvestigator1]

BTW, I hope it works out for you. I would hate for someone to have their dream crushed by something dumb they did in the past.

[md123]

Enough with the rhetoric - lets settle this once and for all. It seems we are arguing over the use of the word "mistake" so lets see what Webster's Dictionary has to say about it:

mis·take n.

1. An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
2. A misconception or misunderstanding.

When someone says lying was a mistake, or smoking marijuana was a mistake, it can be argued wither way (and I had to think about it a bit), but I would say that "mistake" is an accurate choice of words. Unless they are trying to imply they made these "BAD CHOICES" or mistakes because of "defective judgement" (I think that might imply a defective mind - not a good thing in law enforcement), "deficient knowledge" (you didn't know it was wrong??), or carelessness (you didnt care it was wrong, or that it would hurt you - not a good thing - but probably what most who use the term mean). It seems many who use the term mistake mean they were being "careless," in which case not a great attribute, but still proper use of the word.

[txinvestigator1]

Enough with the rhetoric - lets settle this once and for all. It seems we are arguing over the use of the word "mistake" so lets see what Webster's Dictionary has to say about it:

mis·take n.

1. An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.
2. A misconception or misunderstanding.

When someone says lying was a mistake, or smoking marijuana was a mistake, it can be argued wither way (and I had to think about it a bit), but I would say that "mistake" is an accurate choice of words. Unless they are trying to imply they made these "BAD CHOICES" or mistakes because of "defective judgement" (I think that might imply a defective mind - not a good thing in law enforcement), "deficient knowledge" (you didn't know it was wrong??), or carelessness (you didnt care it was wrong, or that it would hurt you - not a good thing - but probably what most who use the term mean). It seems many who use the term mistake mean they were being "careless," in which case not a great attribute, but still proper use of the word.

I disagree with you, and so do most people when they hear a person admitting to wrongdoing and calling it a mistake. I have said this many times. It sounds like the person is minimizing the wrongdoing and not taking ownership of it.

If I intentionally lie under oath, that is not a mistake. If I tell what I think is the truth, then discover later it was not the truth, that was a mistake. If I meant to say one thing, but got confused and said another, that could be a mistake or an accident.

If I pick up a Black and Mild cigar, thinking it is a real cigar and take a puff, only to find it contained pot, I made a mistake. If I take a toke of a joint knowing it is pot, that was not a mistake.

Shall I go on?

edited to add: in conversation, mistake usually means an act that was intended to produce a different result than the actual result.

[Babysmamadrama]

I think "I made a bad conscious decision" is more appropriate.

[txinvestigator1]

I think "I made a bad conscious decision" is more appropriate.

Yep.