Butterfly knives and balisongs

[awny210]

I have heard several stories where balisongs in NYC were confiscated despite balisongs/butterfly knives being ruled not a gravity knife and therefore legal.

"In People v Zuniga, 303 AD2d 773, 759 NYS2d 86 (2d Dept 2003), the Appellate Division held that possessing a "butterfly knife" did not constitute a "gravity knife.
" The butterfly knife requires manual locking and thus does not come within the definition of "gravity knife."
Similarly, in People v Mott, 137 Misc2d 757, 522 NYS2d 429 (County Ct 1987), the judge inspected the knife and recorded his observations: "Such a knife is a folding knife with a split handle. In the closed position, the knife is covered on each side and at the point by two metal guards attached to the blade's base. To open the knife, the metal guards are folded back until they meet and are clasped and thereby form a handle for the blade." Again, the court held that the butterfly knife did not constitute a "gravity knife.""

I had also just read "realpolice.net/forums/ask-cop-112/93786-butterfly-knives-new-york-city-specifically-bronx.html" where several officers are saying that the butterfly knife is infact an illegal gravity knife.

I have recently purchased a butterfly knife but am a bit confused about the mixed stories. Could someone tell me if this is legal to take carry outside? Also, if the courts have ruled that butterfly knives are infact not gravity knives, why was the lady's husband in the post arrested for his weapon? What are you to do if an officer wrongly confiscated your weapon and arrests you? Thanks, any input is appreciated.

[scott715us]

It appears that criminal possession of a weapon in the 4th degree in N.Y. is an A misdemeanor, and it says the following:

A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:

(1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or “Kung Fu star”; or

(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or..

I'm not a LEO in NY, but I would assume under this law, #2 can apply to any knife the LEO deems "dangerous." This can include a butterfly knife.

I looked up the Zuniga case and it appears you're correct about your assumption. Under the "gravity" knife rule, the butterfly knife is not applicable. However, I could see a LEO (or attorney) charging one with the statute I listed above if you have a "dangerous" knife on your person or within reach in your vehicle. I'm sure a pocket knife, Gerber/Leatherman multi-tool wouldn't apply here, but I would say a butterfly or other long-bladed knife definitely applying. My .02.

[awny210]

Does that mean possession of any knife that is not a utility tool is considered a crime? I had thought it was okay if it did not exceed 4 inches in blade length and was not one of the knives listed as illegal.

[Joeyd6]

Police Officers decision based upon the totality of the circumstances. Under 4" is usually safe it is not one of the above....but a 4" butterfly knife and the nonsense flip flop opening many do is a danger to others in proximity. This a butterfly can become a dangerous knife by the officer explaining to the court all the writs flipping and blade swinging could have injured somebody close by.

[awny210]

Well if it isnt in the open, and only in your pocket (like I had read in the post i linked) then it should be fine? If a told an officer I was carrying one and not engaged in any activity with it, it would not be confiscated right? Thank you both for your input.

[ET109]

I don't think you can trust that anyone here can tell you what another officer will do if he finds you have that type of knife on you. It's one thing if you have it in your home along with your juggling-chainsaws; on your person in public is another matter.

Generally when someone is carrying something like that, I have to wonder "why?" And unless the answer is "I'm going to the butterfly knife competition over on 3rd street," I tend to think they might be pulling it out when I'm not looking. Particularly if its immediately accessible... like in your pocket. It's like when I see someone with a large fishing knife. It makes sense if he's also carrying a rod and bucket, less sense if he's skulking in an alley behind a hourly-rate motel. One would get a lot more attention.

(*not a NY leo*)

[awny210]

Thank you. I would carry one around because the streets of NYC are not always the safest, especially when I take the subway early in the morning (before sunrise in the winter) and sometimes get back after sunset at night. I have bumped into my fair share of unreasonable or dangerous folk (most recently an angry driver pulled his car in front to block me in the middle of the road and proceeded to get out and bang on my window to fight me, i let him bang for a couple minutes and eventually he left but I have no doubt he would have tried something had I opened the door or windows) and you can never be sure. Thank you all for your help.

[Samuel]

Everything IMPORTANT a butterfly knife can do, a locking folder can also do... Hello McFly....

[retdetsgt]

Everything IMPORTANT a butterfly knife can do, a locking folder can also do... Hello McFly....

Yep. I carry a perfectly legal folding knife with a thumb attachment on the blade so I can open it with one hand. Better quality knife too, I bet. Most novelty knives are garbage.