Marland Dangerous weapons statute loophole?

[Burnout1985]

well i'd appreciate a Maryland Officer's opinion but anyone's help would be appreciated as well, according to 2010 Maryland Code
CRIMINAL LAW
TITLE 4 - WEAPON CRIMES
Subtitle 1 - General Provisions
Section 4-101 - Dangerous weapons. (§ 4-101. Dangerous weapons.)
from what i've read any fixed blade "dirk" or "bowie" knife as well as switchblades and etc are illegal to carry concealed but are legal when openly carried. HOWEVER, there is no clause in maryland law for a knife that does not fall under any of the weapons listed is also prohibited nor does it add a clause allowing the prosecutor discretion to make that decision. My question is that if i have something like the Cold Steel Spike series Tanto blade (can't link, sorry folks)
that does not meet EITHER definition, would I then be following the letter of the law and be able to have that say under a shirt or otherwise concealed?

[Samuel]

A CS Spike can easily fall under the term "dirk"... What does the Complete section state?

[Burnout1985]

unfortunately i can't link you but if you google maryland dangerous weapons statute, and click on the link for Law.Justitia.com (should be the second link) it'll give you the full statute, and the statute fails to define a dirk or bowie but the general definition of a Dirk knife is any double edged dagger, and i would think that a bowie knife is defined by it's clipped edge

[Burnout1985]

there is also case law from 1992 that says the burden falls on the prosecution to prove a knife is defined as a weapon if it legislatively does not fall under one of those two definitions if that helps

[Samuel]

::shrug:: you don't have to believe or agree with me, you can argue/debate all you want - no skin off my back...

1. IME, "dirk" WILL cover a CS spike BUT, beyond that,
2. The statute states "A person may not wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind concealed on or about the person." and
3. ""Weapon" includes a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, razor, and nunchaku." That means "weapon" does NOT only consist of those items listed in that sentence.

And, re: whatever case law you were referring to - YOU CAN STILL BE ARRESTED AND YOU'D BE FIGHTING YOUR CASE FROM JAIL OR WHILE OUT ON BAIL. And who knows, you MIGHT win BUT would that really be worth the hassle?

Also btw, I could easily articulate the CS spike being a deadly weapon as opposed to a "tool" or piece of equipment. And, if push came to shove, how much impact do you think a little demonstration might have on a jury - when the prosecuting attorney takes a CS spike and, with little effort, repeatedly punctures a watermelon...

[Burnout1985]

i'm not gonna argue, i was just curious where it would fall, i'm not particularly concerned about being arrested as to be noticed i have to do something stupid first. i only carry fixed blades when i am at work or going to or from as well, it's just irritating to make sure they are visible, especially in the winter time.

[mcsap]

Why do you carry such a knife ?

Do you have any FORMAL training in edged weapon skills ?

[Samuel]

Something wrong with carrying a nice locking folder?

[Burnout1985]

I actually was planning on getting a cold steel recon 1, I just am more comfortable with a fixed blade after having the lock snap and slice my hand on a folder a while back. And mcsap, i do NOT carry a knife for self defense, I'm not trained nor prepared to use it unless an absolute worst case scenario arose, I only carry them as a force of habit for work as I use them quite often for slicing rope and prying nails out of things, etc. I abuse my knives a lot at work and most folders in my experience arent up to it, but after a 14 hr work day stopping off at a store and having my shirt slip over my knife cause I was too tired to take it off is irritating in that that is illegal is all >.> thanks for the fast answers folks!

[Samuel]

If you are prying nails out of things with a knife (among other things you are probably doing at work but not listing here), you are definitely using the wrong tool for the job and I might ASSume that you were also probably doing something atypical or borderline abusive when the lock failed on your other knife too.

A CS Recon 1 clip point, is a very nice knife Ergonomics-wise. I'm not fond of AUS8 as a blade steel as a general rule - if you are using your knives heavy, you might be doing a lot of sharpening (YMMV). You're going to have a much easier time explaining that you use a traditional locking folder type knife as a work tool than something like a CS Spike (which is not designed for utility).

Also, if the knife is being used at work, why couldn't you leave it at work? If you have to take it home each night, why couldn't you put it in a bag or backpack? If you have to stop by a store on your way home, why couldn't you leave it in your car? Etc...

[Burnout1985]

It's what happens to be handy at the time after my coworkers steal my hammer and other tools for the 5th time to work on their job assignments usually. I can't leave it at work as there isn't really anywhere secure to leave it except for the boss' house, and personally I'd rather keep the knife on my belt as the holsters I wear take a while to get off especially when my fingers are numb from working 14 hours in the cold outside, I'd be more worried about zoning out and forgetting I took the knife out of the holster when I get back in the car than looks I get from people for grabbing some food and ice packs at 1030 at night when I'm on the way home or 430am when I'm headed in. but sometimes I just don't have a practical way to carry it visibly without my jacket being open. The only fixed blade I've found I can carry in any weather to meet the law requirements is my CRKT ultima since it sits in a drop leg holster, and has yet to fail in any way after a year of use. I get that using a knife to pry is not the intended use, I should know best of all but sometimes it really is the only thing that is handy.
And Samuel, I'm not listing the other parts of my job as there are really too many to count, its whatever the boss needs at the time from rewiring the eletrical fencing to cleaning stables to taking scrap metal to the dump, every day I find I need to use my knife at least once though

[Samuel]

I don't need to know the other parts of your job - I'm sure you are busy with a variety of tasks and I don't doubt you often use a knife during the course of your employment. My point is that I would not count on ANY of your excuses to sway the judge should you be caught in violation. Playing devil's advocate, remember, these are all voluntary choices you are making. E.g. you chose to use a knife for a purpose that it wasn't designed, the lock failed, and you got cut - although your coworkers borrowed your tools, it was still your choice to use the knife instead of perhaps using a secondary hammer or retrieving your tools first. Likewise, it's your choice to keep it on your person rather than secure it in a bag or container or leaving it in the car. It's your choice not to wait in order to warm up your hands and remove your gear. It's your choice not to remove the knife and temporarily secure it somewhere other than on your person should you decide to keep all the rest of your gear on. YMMV!

[Burnout1985]

yea i get it, if i got charged it'd be my own moronic fault basically. And if the officer lets me go if i got caught concealing a knife intentionally or unintentionally he'd be pretty forgiving where he could have nailed me to the wall with the charge. Looks like i'll be only wearing my CRKT and maybe a Recon 1 when i get around to getting it. Thanks for the input Samuel, much appreciated as it's better to know the possibilities of whether it'd be allowed than take a chance with being ignorant of the law and lose a career as a result.
also, YMMV?

[Samuel]

YMMV = your mileage may vary - i.e. nothing is guaranteed one way or the other. An LEO may or may not choose to arrest you, a DA may or may not choose to file the case, and a judge may or may not accept your explanations, etc.

For me, a fixed bladed knife, showing wear consistent with it being used as an improvised tool or a work implement, attached to a work/equipment belt or kept with tools, found with a "regular" person with "normal" attitude, is probably not going to cause much concern...

ETA: sorry, should have clarified from the get go that I'm NOT in MD...

[Burnout1985]

ah ok gotcha, and s'all right, doesn't matter where you're from just that you're an LEO so getting an opinion on how someone in YOUR position might interpret it is what i wanted to know, thanks!