another hat question

[Q&A]

hey guys im probably beating a dead horse with this question but here recently i was pulled over for a speeding violation. the guy who pulled me over was an police officer driving an undercover vehicle he called backup up cause he didnt have a ticket book is what he said the other officer arrived and neither of them had their proper headgear on. one had no hat and the other was wearing a georgia bulldog baseball cap.
so my question is if the were to write me a ticket could i have fought it just because they were out of uniform?
thanks for any help
Q&A

[G35 Mass]

Well, all police officers gain their state granted authority from their hats. Don't call it a hat though, it's called a cover. See the badge on the picture of their hat? That's where their special powers of arrest come from. TONS of criminals have gotten away, and actually prosecuted police officers for arresting them(kidnapping) if they didn't have their hat on... No hat, no power. Get it?

It's kinda like... The Green Lantern not having his ring. If I were you... I'd appeal the ticket. Let the magistrate know that he didn't have on his "Hat that grants him his special powers," (say that verbatim) and let nature take its course.

I remember the old days when not only were uniformed personnel required to wear hats at all time but all detectives and even F.B.I. agents were required to wear fedoras. On extremely hot days we were allowed to place our hats on the back window of the car but had to place them firmly on the head before exiting the vehicle. We used to practice this move often in the springtime so we could quickly don our hats without delay on those hot summer days. There was hat training required for all who were promoted to detective and some departments actually had competition with other department to see which detective teams could don the hats fastest. There was also pretty stiff competition as for which team had the snazziest hats. Rhode Island and Ohio teams used to be arch rivals back in those days with Florida being a runner up, usually third. Actually those hats served another purpose. We used them to hide the radio antennas onn our unmarkeds. The antennae were also on the rear window sill and perps used to look there to check whether or not we were cops. Of course some of the guys didn't realize those hats, not the antennae, meant "cops." Did you ever hear of "The Hat Squad?" There's truth to it.



I can not take credit for the above; copy/paste from another forum

[retdetsgt]

Before my time, but I saw an old regulation from my department that said detectives were required to wear fedoras. Straw ones were allowed during the summer months. In our police museum, there's a picture of the detective division in front of the old police station and they are all wearing hats.

I used to have a Sgt. who's goal in life was to catch us out of our cars w/o our hats. In fact, the was the only thing the worthless sumbitch ever did.

JFK ruined all that, he was the one who who made it popular for men to now wear hats outdoors.

[cntryboy0531]

Yes!!!!! I strongly encourage you to elect a court date and fight this ticket in court. Without his hat being on, he can not issue a ticket. It sucks by I have to wear a campaign cover anytime I want to issue citations. Be sure to tell the judge that he was not wearing his hat, and the ticket should be thrown out as a result.

Recording in courtrooms is also usually allowed. I say you post a video of the court proceeding, post it on youtube, and post the link here so we can use it as a training aid.

[fatboyjim154]

It's the same over here, no hat or motorcycle helmet, no citation or summons. Ironically the rules say nothing about having to wear trousers (Pants).

[Samuel]

FBJ, is this you?!

[G35 Mass]

Anyone else question the legality of (and as such the constitutionality of stops made by) Officers wearing modern baseball style caps?

They lack the metal badges. Some just have embroidered wording which surely doesn't meet the "badge prominently displayed" element. I doubt embroidered badges do either, as the definition of "badge" does not include what are essentially patches....

[Reapp]

I have a problem with it unless he's commissioned through said baseball team.

[G35 Mass]

I have a problem with it unless he's commissioned through said baseball team.

Right... Exactly. How can we expect an Officer to engage in Community Policing at a baseball game when he's wearing a campaign cover, not a baseball style hat that the public and those in attendance can relate to?

See, this is why CALEA and their certification/accreditation programs are a joke. Their standards writers seem to have forgotten that campaign, 8-point, and crush side covers aren't always in the interest of the Community, but since the baseball hat isn't on CALEA's list of headgear that can be certified as an Officer's Display of Authority head garment, our hands are tied.

What if I somehow secure my hat badge to my shaved head?

[greg72982]

Unfortunately that is one of the few fatal errors an officer can make that will get a ticket dismissed immediately. I only got burned once by it, never again.

The Georgia Bulldogs cap is as good as not wearing one. It doesn't prominently display a badge as G35 previously stated. As for the police baseball caps, I haven't heard of it being challenged in my state.

[retdetsgt]

I think that in some Southern states a Cabela's hat is authorized.

[cntryboy0531]

I think that in some Southern states a Cabela's hat is authorized.

Our Fish and Game State LEO's wear full size stetsons.....

[steelcityk9cop]

In most states the hat is the symbol of a police officer's authority.... without the requirement of the display of that symbol of authority the courts will not recognise the officer's standing to issue the citation.

[icu650]

As you are well aware, when an officer enters a courtroom he is reminded by the bailiff to remove his hat. This is the transfer of authority from that officer's hat to the Judge's robe. When the defendant is removed from the courthouse under detention the officer then puts his hat back on to regain the authority.

[Big Sexy]

Mind you BIG is a federal Special Agent and as such he is not uniformed, meaning he doesn't wear a hat of any sort during day to day business. With that being said, whenever we are to preform an enforcement action, i.e. raids, search warrants, we are to wear some sort of head hear to not only identify ourselves, but also to convey the authority and from where we derive it.