This is more of a "Should I even..." question...

[MommaBear]

So, here's the sitch. Last year my 17 year old son started hanging out with a bad crowd, doing drugs, got an MIP, etc. He watched one of his "friends" actually end up in prison and had a huge wake up moment. Since then, he has really turned his life around, it's been about 6 months and he's in school, making good grades, working part time, etc. He's 18 now. Since he was always a great kid growing up, and it seemed like it only lasted a year (god, what a long year), I am putting it down to rebellion. I kind of did the same thing when I was young, so I get it.

The issue is that it seems to me as though local law enforcement kind of put him in their radar back then, and every chance they get, they try and nail him for something. We live in a pretty nice neighborhood, the `burbs, and our neighbors are mostly retired. The other night he was coming home from work and it was late, about 2:00 a.m., and law enforcement pulled him over. At this point he was about 5 blocks away from home and so drove into our driveway. They told him it was for no light over his license plate. That was it. They asked him to get out of the car, which he did. Then they asked him if they could search him. He said, no, and then thought better of it and said yes. So they searched him. During the search, he said he felt pretty invaded. They patted him down three times and emptied his pockets. Then they said, can we search your car? Remember, this is 2:00 in the morning, he just got home from work, he's tired and he just got patted down three times. He said, well, I'm home and I'd really just like to go to bed. At this point our dog is barking, which wakes ME up, and I walk outside and see two police cars outside my house with my son. One of them looks at me and says, is this car registered to you? I said, yes, and he asked me if he can search it. I'm thinking to myself, um, WHY? and also, do they realize it's 2:00 a.m. and I work?? So, I said, "What did you pull my son over for?" He said, "His license plate light was out." I'm thinking really. I asked my son if everything was okay, and that's when he said, well, they searched me. So I looked at them and I said, "No, not tonight, I'm going back to bed". Seriously? They want me to stay up an extra hour so they can go through a parked car? I know they think there were drugs in there or SOMETHING, but I know there wasn't. So he said Fine, and then he looked at my son, and said, "Bye (First Name here), we'll see you later".

Really.

This would have been bad enough, but then for TWO HOURS they parked their cars in front of my house on the other side of the street and proceeded to talk loudly about what a bad mother I was, and how they KNEW there was drugs in the car and I KNEW there drugs in the car and he was a drug dealer, etc. If I could hear it, I know my neighbors could hear it. It was embarrassing. I really felt like they were unprofessional, every third word was a cuss word and I just wanted to go out there and confront them, but I kept thinking, okay, if I go out there and confront them, well, that's stupid, they are police and they are not in a good mood, but at the same time I wasn't going to let them bully me into submission to get up and have them go through the car looking for nonexistent drugs. They were on a mission. I don't know how long they would have searched that car looking for something. I finally went to sleep. I thought I would feel better or differently the next morning, but I find myself getting more upset. These guys are supposed to protect my family, not harass us.

I was thinking about starting a dialogue or something with them, but is that stirring up a nest? I feel like a reasonable person, and I think I know where they are coming from, but they are really barking up the wrong tree. At the same time, I feel like if we don't all sit down together, that they are going to continue to harass my son. I can't even tell you the number of times he's been pulled over for stupid stuff. They never give him a ticket. In fact, he's never had a ticket or been in an accident. It's just this crowd that he hung out with in his senior year that he never even sees anymore that got him on the radaar. I tell him that eventually it will all fade away, but I can tell you that his faith in the police force is gone. Mine is already gone. Well, with just this one neighborhood patrol. It's actually our County Sheriff patrol. The City PD are all really nice guys, and have helped us out with the usual burb stuff over the last ten years. If there's an issue, I try to call them. I don't even want to see County.

What do I do? What do you think would be reasonable?

[Samuel]

Without knowing ALL the facts (i.e. ALL sides of the story), there is no way for any of us to give an informed opinion or determine what would be REASONABLE.

What you do is dependent on YOU. You have a right to have your concerns heard. If it bothers you enough, call that particular agency and make an appointment to meet with someone in charge (sometimes you can just walk in - ymmv).

That being said, if I had initiated a traffic stop and the person I was trying to pull over decided to ignore me and drive an extra 5 blocks just because he/she wanted to get home first, the ensuing contact would have been MUCH less friendly and MUCH more authoritative than what you described and the ending would have likely been MUCH more problematic for the driver as well as the owner of the car...

[greg72982]

I would never tell you not to go talk to someone at the department if you feel that would help the situation but you must consider something. Police are often told by parents that little Johnny has changed and turned his life around, only to end up arresting Johnny for the same crimes (or even new ones) not long after. It isn't that uncommon so if you do decide to go this route please understand it may not have any effect. Police are usually skeptics and that is usually well supported by things we come across each day. It doesn't mean, however, that after some time your son won't fly off the radar.

Someone recently posted a thread about a similar situation. He stated that he has since changed his ways and wondered how long it would take for the police to realize this and no longer bother with him. It's a similar thing with your son. There is no standard time frame but remember actions speak louder than words.

The best advice to give him is that when he is pulled over, even if the reason seems stupid to him, to be friendly and cooperative. Over time he should be able to show that he is not who he once was. It will also help him if doesn't associate with that crowd anymore.

Just curious also, what types of drugs was he into?

[mcsap]

Not pulling over for 5 blocks is an indication that somone is either DUI or they have something to HIDE. That was pretty STUPID on his part. He is not showing signs of " changing " for the better by acting this way.

If your son is unhappy of how he was treated , he can certainly go to the station and file a complaint. Since he is of legal age , you cannot do it for him. If he chooses to do this , HOW he does it will be part and parcel of how serious it is ( or isn't).

[MommaBear]

For all of your replies. These are not five city blocks, these are five house blocks, so, really 5 houses away, so when they put on their lights, he was pretty much outside our house, and they know him, they know our neighborhood, so they know when and where they pulled him over. I think it wasn't so much the searching that bothered me and I thought about what it was that really bothered me long and hard after I posted and I think honestly, that it was the fact that they were talking in loud voices for two hours across the street at such a late hour. I feel almost that they wanted me to go out there and confront them. It was kind of weird. This is a residential street in a nice neighborhood in the early morning hours and they were across the street, badmouthing me in front of my neighbors. But I was afraid to go out there. I think, more than anything, I am ashamed of myself for being afraid. Can you call the police on the police? I mean, if these were regular citizens or people that were out there, I would have called the police to register a noise complaint. And they were obviously trying to get a reaction from me, because why wouldn't they go vent somewhere else? I've decided to just keep a record of everything that's going on, and if something like this happens again, I won't be timid. I will go out there and ask nicely that if they have problems about my decision, to please vent elsewhere, because it's embarrassing to me.

For what it's worth, it was marijuana that my son was involved in. And alcohol. And no, he hasn't been with this group of people since the beginning of the summer and his behavior has gone back to normal so I know he's back to being good. You know from the people that he hangs out with at the house, he's back with his old friends. So about 6 months. And my son is always very polite to myself and to law enforcement. In fact, in all of his 18 years, he's never raised his voice to me. When he gets mad, he shuts down and just leaves. But that's not the point. I think you have helped me decide how I really felt about all this, and what I will do next time. I will try to reason with their better natures and try and establish a dialogue at that time.

Being targeted is a price to pay for who he was involved with, but why try and embarrass me in my neighborhood? These are answers you can't answer, but if you guys are out on patrol, I would hope that you would extend courtesy to the people you protect and not do things like that.

And really, it's only County that's like this, they sort of have a reputation for being the mean guys. Our City PD is amazingly awesome. I just don't understand how we can have such a different type of officer in each department, but I guess that's the way it is.

[BJJVad]

As a parent, I would be more thankful that Officers are taking their time to help keep my kid straight. If I knew my kid HAD a drug problem, I would love that they searched him. In fact, I would be doing daily ones of his room myself until he moved out.

A parent that states what you have is generally still in denial. Not saying that you are, but it kind of smells like it.

Maybe there is a huge difference, but I would giving my son a speech to him after watching him get searched from the warmth of my living room. It would have been something like, "Well what do you expect them to do? They know you were doing/selling drugs. Of course they are gonna keep checking on you. So am I. I just got done tossing your room. You are making great steps toward doing better, but you have to EARN your trust back from me, and probably them to. Welcome to life."

My 2 copper..

[icu650]

Does your son want you to stay out of his room?
Does he have a locked compartment or cabinet that you don't have a key to?
Does he get many short phone calls?
Does he leave and come back to the house many times during the day?
Does he have many "new friends" showing up?
What does he do for work?
Where does he work?
Did you ever see him there?
What time does he get off work?
Why was he coming home at 2:00 am.
Being a parent is not easy. We have children too and have to be on top of things just like any other parent. Answer these questions honestly and see how, when you put many things all together, it changes a story..or ....maybe not.

[APDSarge]

And really, it's only County that's like this, they sort of have a reputation for being the mean guys. Our City PD is amazingly awesome. I just don't understand how we can have such a different type of officer in each department, but I guess that's the way it is.

The officers are probably very much the same, but if your "city" officers are in smaller department in a small town, there are probably some local politics in play about how they do their job. The "county" officers very likely not as accountable to the residents of your town, and may just come off as not as friendly, when they are in fact just doing their jobs, instead of looking the other way or issuing a citation instead of warnings. It really doesn't sound like they were rude or discourteous, you just didn't like them talking to each other in front of your house. You also mention that your are in a very residential area so they were probably just talking in a normal tone of voice, but because it was night and not much other ambient noise you could hear them better than in the day time. SOund does carry a little better at night, and if the wind was blowing a little towards you that would help the sound carry too.

If they really thought there were drugs in the car they would have searched it with, or without your permission - and it would have been legal for them to do so.