Neck knife worn under shirt equal concealment? (WA State)

[KennyB]

Okay, so I've read the state and local municipal code ( basically a carbon copy of the state law ) regarding knives. I'm fine carrying the type of knife that I wish to carry, except for one thing I'm not sure of...

RCW 9.41.250

(1) Every person who:

     (a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

     (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

     (c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

     (2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:

     (a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer while the officer:

     (i) Is on official duty; or

     (ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or

     (b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement officer.

What kinds of ways of carrying a knife are considered furtive concealment? To be specific here I want to carry an ESEE Izula, which is a neck knife. If you're not familiar that means it's a knife that is intended to be worn on a lanyard around one's neck. The Izula has a sheath that's also designed to be really versatile though, so the user can also rig it to where it will fasten to a belt too. The knife itself is just a 3" fixed blade made of carbon steel. I'll be carrying it as a tool, not a weapon. I just like this knife because it's as small and convenient as a folder, but tough and capable like a fixed blade, plus the manufacturer has a life-time warranty and will replace it if you break it, no-questions-asked... Anyway, enough of the product review already.

What I'm worried about is my shirt covering it when I'm carrying it. As a neck knife I like to hang it under my shirt so it doesn't knock into things or swing around when I lean over. Not sure if that would count as furtive concealment though... On the one hand it's under the shirt, but on the other hand there's a big lanyard which you can see and I don't really see it as a person going out of their way to keep it from being found, which is what I've come to understand "furtively concealing" means.

The other way I like to carry it is horizontally on my belt, across the front of my waist. The big issue here is that I don't like to tuck my shirt in, and mainly for the reason I like to carry horizontal across my waist, in that I'm a fat guy with a big gut--I don't have any shame in admitting that. Tucking my shirt in, or having a knife sticking up vertically on a belt on my side, have just never been very comfortable. I wouldn't think there would be a problem with this, because since it's only just obscured a little by my shirt it can still be viewed if I move around the right way, and the only way I could really keep it "hidden" is if I also covered it up with my pants. I also worry that with all the "versatile" ways that this knife can be carried that some may seem a little too unconventional and look like a contraption that's mean to hide it. In the case of this knife specifically, the user can run some cordage through the sheath to be able to run a belt through, and if you weren't aware that's how the manufacture recommends to do it, it would seem like a rigged way to carry the knife a way it wasn't supposed to be carried because the cord just looks crude.

What do you guys think?

Anyway, also just to clarify, I only intend to carry this knife as a tool.

[mcsap]

I can't imagine wearing a HEAVY " necklace " all day. I don't see any benefit as a tool and it sure looks and smells like a toy. Every time you need this " tool " you have to reach up under your collar to get it out. If you have dirty hands , you'll get your shirt / neck dirty and if you use it for dirty jobs , you'll have to clean it well before putting it back under your shirt.

Sorry , I see no true value as any kind of a tool but it sure reminds me of some sort of weapon that you would see in the movies. " Scarface ?" I know of NOBODY who carries a knife around their neck.

DO I see guys with a Buck knife on their belts ? SURE , all of the time. Isn't a big concern to me. Would I be concerned if a guy was wearing a knife around his neck , YES. That is very unusual.

Kind of reminds me of the recent guy here who wanted to practice flipping open his butterfly knife.

[KennyB]

I can't imagine wearing a HEAVY " necklace " all day. I don't see any benefit as a tool and it sure looks and smells like a toy. Every time you need this " tool " you have to reach up under your collar to get it out. If you have dirty hands , you'll get your shirt / neck dirty and if you use it for dirty jobs , you'll have to clean it well before putting it back under your shirt.

Sorry , I see no true value as any kind of a tool but it sure reminds me of some sort of weapon that you would see in the movies. " Scarface ?" I know of NOBODY who carries a knife around their neck.

DO I see guys with a Buck knife on their belts ? SURE , all of the time. Isn't a big concern to me. Would I be concerned if a guy was wearing a knife around his neck , YES. That is very unusual.

Kind of reminds me of the recent guy here who wanted to practice flipping open his butterfly knife.

It's actually getting pretty popular for "knife enthusiasts" to use neck knives. As far as the dirt thing goes... You would take it out of your shirt before beginning work and wash the knife and your hands before putting it back. The point of having it under the shirt is to keep it from getting in the way just when you're carrying it around. The big advantage of that over a belt-knife is that I notice having it on less ( it's actually only 2 ounces so it's very easy to forget it's there, not heavy at all ) and getting it in and out of the sheath is less awkward when I can hold on to it with one hand and look at it straight out in front of me--it's always kind of awkward to do it with a belt sheath unless you can take it off and on.

Anyway, not that I really want to make a big post arguing the merits of it as a tool, it's just definitely not a toy nor marketed as a weapon at all by the manufacturer, just a utility knife and a very good one at that. It's pretty popular too, and if you went by sales then the amount of people who have used or use neck knives is easily in the hundreds if not thousands. So it's not really all that peculiar or strange, and I really haven't seen a lot of people adopting neck knives as weapons as opposed to utility and everyday carry knives, but have seen some of that so it has been a concern how it would appear.

I do appreciate your perspective on that though, since that's mostly what I'm concerned with and I know that a lot of cops aren't particularly interested in knives and wouldn't necessarily be aware of all the benefits or frequency of a new type of carry or niche things like that ( in fact a lot of people in general are traditionalists and don't see the point ), and can certainly see why a knife on a necklace would raise some eyebrows. In fact, I'll admit that if I had to open carry it in public as a neck knife I'd probably feel a little self-conscious that I looked stupid and would rather have it on my belt. It's just after trying it around the house for a little while I've got to say that the whole neck-carry thing has its merits, one of those things you have to try to really appreciate.

All that being said, I would definitely settle for belt carry in public s I said... Just still worried that not having the shirt tucked in so it's not covered would count as concealment, especially as it seems my concerns of it being perceived as a weapon aren't without reason.

Out of curiosity, did you check out the actual knife or were you just talking about the idea of a neck knife in general? What do you think of it as a belt knife as opposed to neck knife?

[Citicop]

If it's under your shirt, it will be considered concealed everywhere I am familiar with.

I am unsure what definition of "concealed" one could use that would NOT cover this...

-Citicop.