Horse Theft

[Brandy2]

I have broken up with my live in boyfriend and I am moving out. My mare is in foal and I will be moving her to my neighbors when they finish their corral. I am going to go into residential treatment for 3 months and my neighbors told me that my ex said he is going to take and keep my foal. If he succeeds in getting the foal, how can I prove that it is really mine? I live in Utah if that helps with the laws there.

[retdetsgt]

Does he own the stud? Otherwise, it's pretty cut and dried, if you totally own the mare, then the foal is yours.

Will the neighbors call the police if he comes on their property?

[Brandy2]

Yes, we were together living as a couple when he bought the stallion at the auction and we agreed to breed my mare and the foal would go to my daughter to replace her horse he sold. We then gelded the stallion. Now out of spite he says he is keeping the foal, but we had already given ownership to my daughter and yes my neighbors will call the police on him as they are disgusted with him that he has already stolen a lot of my things before I could get them out of the house. As for the mare she is totally mine and has been for the last 4 years. I just want to know how to prove that they are in case he does steal the foal from the neighbors if they are not home. Would veterinarian records prove they are mine? All my mares records at the vets are in my name. The vet knows the mare is mine and knows she was pregnant and left her shots for the pregnancy at his office for me to pick up as he was going out of town that day.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

As your vet if he/she would sign an affidavit or appear in court if it were required. If you had to prove the horse was yours right now, could you? Paperwork from the previous owner, etc.?

[Brandy2]

I got the mare from a woman who bought her at the auction for her grandson. She lived out of state and was boarding her here until she could transport her. Ended up the mare was not suitable for a child and since she owed a months board and feed she gave me the mare in exchange for what she owed. So there is no paperwork there. All's I have is the word of friends and neighbors and records at the veterinarians office, but he is not interested in taking my mare. He said he was going to take the foal and keep it for himself.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

You should probably call your state game & fish or livestock department to get an answer that's much better than what we can give here. Not having any paperwork that shows you own the animal could be problematic, but I've never dealt with Game & Fish laws on anything remotely approaching a "regular basis."

[retdetsgt]

I agree that you need to contact someone locally to get answers. Few cops deal with livestock issues and this one is a real mess. I think the foal is yours legally, but I'm not sure. Generally there is an agreement at breeding regarding stud fee, etc., but everything about this is verbal. I would start with calling the local sheriff's office and talking to them. Someone there should at least direct you to the proper agency if they don't know, but it sounds like this is something that will eventually end up in front of a judge, one way or the other.

[Legoate]

You are also going to run into joint property problems depending on how long you two lived together. I'm assuming there is no written agreement so it's just a he said/she said issue. And, it's a civil issue that the police most likely wouldn't get involved in.

Best of luck to you, but this one is a mess.

[MountainMan]

Depending on what state you are in, you should have a brand inspector or an equivalent position. Contact them and they should be able to tell you everything you need to get done. Including the brand inspection to prove ownership. And just to answer before you ask they don't need to be branded.

[Brandy2]

Thank you to all who replied. There was no mention of stud fee at the breeding. I wanted to breed to replace my daughters horse he sold and he wanted to breed so he could actually see a horse breed up close. The agreement was when we were together that the foal go to my daughter. I want to thank all the replied and I think I will follow through with all suggestions. I am thinking to if I have the foal microchip that might work too, but as of right now I am still in the house and still moving my things and my pregnant mare is still on the property. He hasn't said anything to me about taking the foal or contradicted anything when I mention my daughter and the foal as of yet. He just told the neighbors that he was going to take it when I was gone for the 3 months which means he plans to do it behind my back and I won't be here to stop him. He is a very money hungry man and has taken a lot of my things including a car and sold them behind my back. That is one of the reasons for the split. He never asks.

[oscarmitre]

Jeez this takes me back a few years to my time in the Stock Squad here. It wasn't at all unusual to get inquiries like this where the criminal law and the civil law were so intricately bound up in one incident.

Some thoughts and please note that this is from an Australian procedural perspective, the advice given previously about seeking specialist help is right on the money.

Property rights of couples in Utah is a good place to start. I can't speak for Utah or the rest of the States but in Australia each state and territory does have laws that regulate the separation outcomes for unmarried couples. Unlike the US in Australia marriage law - I mean de jure - is a federal matter and until a few years ago the states and territories had no provision for settling property disputes between separating unmarried couples.

You wrote "my mare is in foal". How can you prove she is your mare? I mean yours, not her horse identity. When did you acquire her? How? Do you have paperwork? Is she of a registered breed? Is she branded? If she is branded where is the brand registered? Did you acquire her before you took up with your boyfriend, as a domestic couple I mean. If you already had her before he moved in then if you have some solid evidence it should make it easier for you to prove you own the mare. Do you have any dated photos of her? Has she showed or won a prize at an equestrian event? All the bits and pieces of that jigsaw should be located and put together if possible. Does your boyfriend have an interest in horses? If he doesn't, if he can't tell a fetlock from a flintlock and you can prove that then that's good evidence as well. Who looks/looked after her? Who fed her, got the farrier when necessary, exercised her, rode her, kept an eye on her for changes in behaviour that might indicate an illness. All these little things help.

You agreed to breed the mare. The stallion covered her. I would assume you both paid for the service to the mare. What was the purpose of putting the stallion to the mare? It looks like you both agreed it would be to produce a foal which would then go to your daughter. Is there anything at all that will go to show that was the case? Letters, documents, bills, a talk with the studmaster in a casual conversation explaining why you wanted the mare serviced.

Sorry I can't give you a much more detailed analysis but I'm not a lawyer and this is one of those cases where you might need to consult a lawyer. I don't know about the legalities surrounding horses in Utah but in Australia we can trace laws about horses right back to English common law and trust me it's complex.

Equine Law | Horse Law Solicitors & Legal Advice - although it's English this is the kind of thing I mean.

One thing I learned as a stock squad Detective was that a horse is not like a television or a motor car....no television ever bit me on the arse when I wasn't looking.....

Good luck with your inquiries.

[Brandy2]

I have had my mare for 4 years and I have paid all care for her. Farrier, vet costs and all her shots and feed. I have talked to the brand inspector and he tells me I do not need to have her brand inspected as I have registration papers in my name from the National Pinto Horse Association. He said that is my proof of ownership and the law states whoever owns the mare owns the foal. I would only need to get the brand inspection if I were to sell her. As for the stud service, my ex bought a stallion from the auction and we bred just before he gelded him. I was also told by the brand inspector that stud fee is something that is discussed and agreed upon at the time of breeding and we never had no such discussion. I wanted to breed to replace her horse he sold and he agreed because he wanted to watch a horse breeding. He even took pictures then posted them on facebook. I was shocked at that one. Anyway I requested a copy of her registration papers which are in my name and should receive the copy within another 2 weeks. Then after the foal is born I will take his pictures and register him as the inspector told my as long as he is a suckling foal I can prove ownership. Which means after he is weaned I will need solid proof he is mine and that is why I will also register him. I will then have proof of ownership for both mare and foal. He also told me that if my ex were to succeed in taking the foal he would go to jail for horse theft and that it was not looked upon too kindly here in Utah. I also obtained all my vet records and an affidavit from my veterinarian who also knows my mare is in foal.

[Legoate]

Good luck with this one... Your ex sounds a bit strange. Sounds like you are taking the right steps.

[Brandy2]

Update for everyone. My mare had a little sorrel filly and with perfect timing too. She was born on my
daughters birthday. I sent in her registration application the same day. My daughter just loved her
birthday present. Also the vet came out for the check up and shots and said he will and can verify the
foal is mine.

[retdetsgt]

Good news, Brandy! Hope it all works out for you and your daughter.