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  1. #1
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    are citations for "failure to control vehicle speed...collision" standard issue?

    Maryland.

    This past weekend I was involved in an accident that was caused by another driver making a u-turn. This is how it happened:

    -Traveling northbound in the left lane several car lengths behind another vehicle in the left lane on a 2 way 4 lane 35mph limit road.
    -Vehicle in front signals left even though there isn't a left turn available up ahead.
    -The other vehicle slows and changes over to the right lane, I slow as well to maintain distance.
    -The other vehicle is now in the right lane and I am in the left lane with no cars in front of me.
    -The other vehicle slows down more as we approach an intersection, that only has a right turn.
    -The other vehicle bears right and looks like it is about to take the next right turn.
    -I continue in the left lane at speed and laughed that the guy didn't know his right and left.
    -Since the other vehicle has slowed to turning speed and I continued driving in my left lane, I am now about 2 car lengths behind him in the left lane.
    -Right before the other vehicle enters the intersection and I thought was going to make a right turn, he bears to his right and then attempts to make a left hand u-turn through my lane.
    -I see his front half of the car in my lane and reflexively brake and swerve left into the opposing lanes since there were no oncoming cars.
    -The other vehicle continued his u-turn and my front right collided with his front left.
    -I felt I had to swerve otherwise I would have hit him head on.
    -Had he saw me and heard me he should have stopped in the left lane and I would have been able to safely go around him.
    -I couldn't swerve to the right because there were vehicles waiting on the right side of the intersection at the traffic light and may have been cars in the right lane.
    -Luckily neither my wife and kids were not hurt.
    -Unluckily the officer on duty saw it fit that I receive a citation for failure to control vehicle speed to avoid a collision.

    How and what could I have done differently, other than not being there, to avoid that accident? Am I expected to always assume the worst when nearing another vehicle and slow to a crawl so I can stop at a dime?\


    Thanks all for any advice and info regarding this unfortunate incident.

  2. #2
    tcop733's Avatar
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    Only advice I have is you'll have your day in court. Without being on the scene, seeing the damage, roadway, and not hearing the other parties story, I can't form an opinion as to who is the at fault party.
    A man's got to know his limitations
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  3. #3
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcop733 View Post
    Only advice I have is you'll have your day in court. Without being on the scene, seeing the damage, roadway, and not hearing the other parties story, I can't form an opinion as to who is the at fault party.
    Thanks. Could you tell me whether the u-turn I described is legal or not? I though a u-turn must be made from the lane closest to the center line, which would have been the lane I was in. If he did that then I would have slowed to a crawl as if waiting for someone making a left turn at a light.

  4. #4
    Laww is offline Maryland State Trooper Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidepocketwil View Post
    Maryland.

    This past weekend I was involved in an accident that was caused by another driver making a u-turn. This is how it happened:

    -Traveling northbound in the left lane several car lengths behind another vehicle in the left lane on a 2 way 4 lane 35mph limit road.
    -Vehicle in front signals left even though there isn't a left turn available up ahead.
    -The other vehicle slows and changes over to the right lane, I slow as well to maintain distance.
    -The other vehicle is now in the right lane and I am in the left lane with no cars in front of me.
    -The other vehicle slows down more as we approach an intersection, that only has a right turn.
    -The other vehicle bears right and looks like it is about to take the next right turn.
    -I continue in the left lane at speed and laughed that the guy didn't know his right and left.
    -Since the other vehicle has slowed to turning speed and I continued driving in my left lane, I am now about 2 car lengths behind him in the left lane.
    -Right before the other vehicle enters the intersection and I thought was going to make a right turn, he bears to his right and then attempts to make a left hand u-turn through my lane.
    -I see his front half of the car in my lane and reflexively brake and swerve left into the opposing lanes since there were no oncoming cars.
    -The other vehicle continued his u-turn and my front right collided with his front left.
    -I felt I had to swerve otherwise I would have hit him head on.
    -Had he saw me and heard me he should have stopped in the left lane and I would have been able to safely go around him.
    -I couldn't swerve to the right because there were vehicles waiting on the right side of the intersection at the traffic light and may have been cars in the right lane.
    -Luckily neither my wife and kids were not hurt.
    -Unluckily the officer on duty saw it fit that I receive a citation for failure to control vehicle speed to avoid a collision.

    How and what could I have done differently, other than not being there, to avoid that accident? Am I expected to always assume the worst when nearing another vehicle and slow to a crawl so I can stop at a dime?\


    Thanks all for any advice and info regarding this unfortunate incident.

    Sir,

    Depending on the agency it is usually policy for the "at fault" driver to be issued a citation. That being said, what the officer had to work with since he was not present to witness the traffic collision was the impact and subsequent damage he / she observed. So since the collision would have had the appearance of you striking him from behind, the minimum you would have been issued would have been the "failure to reduce speed to avoid collision" citation. That's not to say you are 100% at fault, but as you indicated you noticed the driver of the oter vehicle was "confused" but still closed the distance between your two respective vehicles, so your actions are at best, contributary.

    Go to court, without any credible 3rd party witnesses there is a strong chance that the judge will dismiss the citation or otherwise reduce the $140 and 3 point punishment that comes with that citation.
    ‎...let me stop you right there, sir. There's only two of us standing here and only one of us cares anything about what you have to say.

  5. #5
    mcsap is offline Veteran member ( retired) mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute
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    What does the crash report say you did ( or didn't do ) ?
    Creeper Cop

  6. #6
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    Laww,

    Thank you, I wish the attending officer had told me what you said when she gave me the citation. Also, upon further inspection of my vehicle's damage, it looks like the other vehicle actually impacted me first, so my swerve to the left was sort of "successful" in that I avoided hitting him, but the other car continued their u-turn maneuver and still hit me.

    mcsap,

    I got the report yesterday and it simply states "V1 and V2 (me) were traveling in lane 1 of <street name>. V2 driver stated that V1 had his left turn signal on and then suddenly shifted into the right lane before making a U turn. V2 then collided with V1 in the intersection. Both drivers were issued citations."

    That is not as accurate and descriptive as I had relayed to the officer. V1 changed to the right lane but continued to slow down to a crawling speed as if they were preparing to take the next right turn. That gave me the impression that I could continue in the left lane at speed. V1 doesn't attempt the u-turn until I was about 2 car lengths away from the intersection.

    The report did not contain the other driver's statement or statements from the witnesses. Are those in a different report? Also, today I was able to contact one of the witnesses who saw the accident from behind us in the right lane. He corroborated my account of the incident. Unfortunately, he couldn't guarantee that he can take a day off work to testify at court for me. He is willing to sign a notarized affidavit but I don't know if that is acceptable in MD traffic court. I can subpoena him but I'd feel horrible for compelling him to go to court. That would probably make him a lot less likely to help anyone in the future.

  7. #7
    mcsap is offline Veteran member ( retired) mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute
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    Why don't you call the officer that took the report and KINDLY ask him to contact the witness you speak of as you feel there was an error made on the report ? Perhaps he would either amend the report or withdraw the cite.
    Creeper Cop

  8. #8
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    I highly doubt it. After I was given the citation I asked the officer why I was cited and she dodged my question and said I can contest it in court. I asked what the citation was for and she dodged the question and said I can contest the ticket in court and that she believes both the other driver and I were equally at fault. I asked her what the witnesses said to her and she declared that she didn't have witnesses, that they were my witnesses so she could only go by her judgement. At that point she began to get agitated and accused me or arguing with her and that we could stand there all day and she wouldn't change her mind. Then I just shut-up. Let it be known that during the entire time I was respectful and never raised my voice and always addressed her as officer or ma'am. During the entire ordeal I did everything she asked for and never questioned or nagged her. My experience with her is why I am reluctant to call, lest she cite me for "badgering an officer" or something.

  9. #9
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    Update,

    I did some research and the other driver only got an "improper turn at intersection" ticket. Unbelievable. What about reckless driving, failure to yield to traffic, or failure to control vehicle speed to avoid collision? Unbelievable. Where is the justice? This must be how people become postal.

  10. #10
    Laww is offline Maryland State Trooper Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute Laww has a reputation beyond repute
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    Side,

    The driver only got that citation because quite frankly, even based on your version of events it was all he did wrong.

    Reckless Driving - Knowingly and PURPOSEFULLY driving with WILLFUL disregard for the safety of persons or property. It is extremely hard, if not impossible for an officer to be able to articulate that if he / she did not witness the act.

    Failure to Yield - He was in front of you, ergo, he has not duty to yield to a vehicle behind him, regardless of its position in the roadway UNLESS it is an emergency vehicle acting in an emergency capacity, i.e. lights and sirens activated.

    I know you are probably frustrated, but you have to take things like this with a grain of salt. The officer was just doing an evaluation based on the statements they received from BOTH parties and any witnesses to the incident.

    Like I said earlier, just take it to court and it will most likely get dismissed, especially since the officer did not witness the collision and there was no death or serious bodily injury.

    I hope this helps. Sometimes traffic laws can be frustrating, and alot of them are based on the interpretation of the particular law by that officer's knowledge, training and experience. Troopers tend to be a little more versed on traffic law since it is the majority of the rules that we enforce.
    ‎...let me stop you right there, sir. There's only two of us standing here and only one of us cares anything about what you have to say.

  11. #11
    mcsap is offline Veteran member ( retired) mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidepocketwil View Post
    Update,

    I did some research and the other driver only got an "improper turn at intersection" ticket. Unbelievable. What about reckless driving, failure to yield to traffic, or failure to control vehicle speed to avoid collision? Unbelievable. Where is the justice? This must be how people become postal.
    While you may well have been given a ticket you didn't deserve , your reference to going postal over a TRAFFIC CITE has me questioning your " calm and respectful " manner. Normal people don't go postal over minor things.

    Go to court , have photos of the entire scene and present what you did , why you did it and why you feel that you sholdn't be guilty of any offense...in a non-postal manner.
    Creeper Cop

  12. #12
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you both for your time and advice.

    mcsap,

    I said "postal" as a figure of speech to vent frustration because I feel helpless being accused of something I know I didn't do. I'd never act that way towards the officer or anyone else, because I know she's just doing her job and it'd in no way help my case. This is my first accident and I just can't believe how unfairly events have transpired. Yeah, I know life is unfair and I just need to suck it up and move on. But, it's hard for me to understand how the other person isn't taking responsibility for his actions. He must know he did something wrong and almost killed an entire family yet he's going to deny responsibility so he can save himself from a higher insurance rate. Personally, if I had caused the accident I would have admitted it and took the financial hit. I'd feel horrible if I almost killed someone lest an entire family. I've always paid the speeding or parking tickets I've received without a fight because I know I committed those acts. Why can't everyone behave that way?

    Thanks again.

  13. #13
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    Update:

    Good news today. The other party's insurance finished their investigation and has agreed to pay for all damages and associated costs of the accident. I still have a court date for my citation, but with the other party admitting fault shouldn't my citation be a slam dunk dismissal? Especially since my state follows contributory negligence law. Should I bother contacting the issuing officer to see if they are willing to retract the citation?

    Thanks

  14. #14
    mcsap is offline Veteran member ( retired) mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute mcsap has a reputation beyond repute
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    The other insurance company paying is a nice piece of info to have. The problem is you can't go in and testify that " the other company took full responsibility and paid for all of my damages " as that doesn't mean that you didn't commit a traffic offense. It should but it doesn't. AND , saying that could be considered heresay. As a Police Officer , I would object to anyone attempting to use heresay eveidence. It can't be verified. Maybe it is true and maybe it isn't.

    Rather , a prudent person could inject that " I received a check for the full amount of damages to my car from the insurance company of Vehicle 1 " as that is a fact because YOU actually did get the payment. You can't state what someone else said in court unless they are there to back it up.
    Creeper Cop

  15. #15
    sidepocketwil is offline Junior Member sidepocketwil is on a distinguished road
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    I already have a settlement offer letter from the insurance company and will make sure to take a copy of the check with me to court. Also, I checked the state's court website and found out the other driver never responded to their citation and their license is going to be suspended. Will that help me in my case as well?

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