Cop kills someone while speeding without siren on.

[ironpony]

Are cops allowed to speed without their sirens on? I saw on the news of one who killed a teenage girl from doing it, but can't remember the name of the officer or the girl. It happened in Edmonton, Canada. That was a few weeks ago, and just I was driving today, a cop speed through an intersection at about 15 miles over the limit on a read light, and almost hit he, coming in sideways. Because of the siren I had no idea, he was even coming and at that speed, I wouldn't have been able to stop or move, and could have been killed.

Are cops allowed to answer emergency calls, and speed, without sirens on? I was told it was illegal by my friends, but some websites say different. I called the 911 operator and reported the cop right after, but if you look at the news stories, nothing happens in these situations, and it seems like cops can endanger or kill whoever they want while speeding. The cop in the news got off free and nothing happened.

If it were a civilian speeding through red lights 15 miles over and nailed someone, they would be put on trial, so I feel it is unfair that the prosecutors feel they shouldn't treat everyone behind the wheel the same way. I'm very pro-police, and respect them having to speed to emergency calls, but aren't they legally required to put their sirens on to warn people?

Okay for some reason this thread posted itself twice I noticed. Sorry about that.

[Reapp]

Yes, it is legal to drive w/o sirens (in TX at least). No, it is not smart to drive through a red light without due regard for others.

[retdetsgt]

In Oregon, the law says we have to drive with "due caution" no matter whether or not we have the siren on or not.

[BP348]

Holy crap you need to go back and proof read your posts!!

As to your question Yes LEO's can respond without lights or sirens.

I have read accounts of officers being prosecuted for injuring/killing someone for speeding in a unit while not responding to a call.

[Gutwrench]

I don't believe this has changed in California but hopefully someone will correct me if so...generally in CA an emergency vehicle is exempt from certain sections of the vehicle code when displaying a solid red light visible from the front and sounding a siren "as may be reasonably necessary."

Like most things dealing with legal issues, the law is examined in the light of the specific circumstances.

When it comes to civil issues the law and department policy will be closely reviewed against the actions.

[cntryboy0531]

Cops are held to the same standard when they operate their vehicles with disregard for the safety of others. HOWEVER if they are driving fast, while carefully doing so, and in the performance of their LAWFUL duties, it's a bit different than joe shmoe driving 20 over the speed limit because he's late for dinner and kills someone. It's not reasonable to tell law enforcement "Ok, you drive as you are trained, obey all of the applicable laws while driving quickly to get to a call including lights and sirens, and make no mistakes, and someone crashes with you, YOU will be charged for causing it". There is a significant difference there.

However, if a cop kills someone on duty, and they are completely found out at fault for the crash, and had no lawful reason for breaking the speed limit, then they can be charged with various things. Broward County Florida just had a Deputy charged with Vehicular Homicide for killing someone in a crash where speeding was a factor. The deputy has since been fired and is now facing criminal charges. It's all about the circumstances around the crash.

[BJJVad]

Why would you call 911 to report the Officer? 911 is for EMERGENCIES. Not for reporting Officer's misconduct. Call the station and complain to a supervisor.

[greg72982]

An officer at one of my old departments got in a crash at an intersection with lights and sirens on. It was an unmarked car but it lit up pretty well. This was in the daytime. No one got hurt other than the cars.

Somehow the insurance company found him at fault. We still can't figure out that one.

I guess this isn't that relevant to the post but I guess it shows you're damned if you do, damned if you don't

[mcsap]

Even though lights and sirens give us additional " abilities" , it does not relieve us from operating with care in caution while doing so. Each case must be viewed independantly.

Have I turned off my light and siren when approaching a bank alarm or burglar alarm ? Yes. Would I do so while 4 miles away ? No.

[cntryboy0531]

An officer at one of my old departments got in a crash at an intersection with lights and sirens on. It was an unmarked car but it lit up pretty well. This was in the daytime. No one got hurt other than the cars.

Somehow the insurance company found him at fault. We still can't figure out that one.

I guess this isn't that relevant to the post but I guess it shows you're damned if you do, damned if you don't

Insurance companies are their own animal. You can be cleared of fault criminally, but still be held civilaly liable for the crash.

[MP_Steve]

In my home state, law enforcement officers are immune to civil lawsuits arraising from accidents that are the result of responding to an emergency. I suspect that there must be a similar type of immunity up there in Canada. Police officers must drive with due regard to the safety of the public in any situation. This isn't Grand Theft Auto

[retdetsgt]

In my home state, law enforcement officers are immune to civil lawsuits arraising from accidents that are the result of responding to an emergency. I suspect that there must be a similar type of immunity up there in Canada. Police officers must drive with due regard to the safety of the public in any situation. This isn't Grand Theft Auto

Oregon doesn't have that. I was sued once when a woman pulled out in front of me when I was going code 3. She hit a pedestrian standing on the sidewalk. He sued the city because we had the deep pockets and she was uninsured. He lost that one because the allegation was I didn't have the lights and siren on. A couple of witnesses down the street saw me pass by with them on.

[cntryboy0531]

In my home state, law enforcement officers are immune to civil lawsuits arraising from accidents that are the result of responding to an emergency. I suspect that there must be a similar type of immunity up there in Canada. Police officers must drive with due regard to the safety of the public in any situation. This isn't Grand Theft Auto

Yeah we have nothing like that in Florida. Matter of fact, in State Statutes it states that nothing in the "exceptions" to us being able to violate traffic laws, supercedes the fact we have to drive with due care. We can be lights and sirens, but if we are driving like we stole the car (like blowing through red lights at 80mph) then we could still be sued, or held criminally liable for injuries or death.

Frankly, I take my time going to calls or accidents now. Working a few fatal crashes, you find out just how easy these can happen at such low speeds. Even before I worked traffic homicide, I told people who complained about response times as to why I took so long, even to a high priority call. Maybe I'm an a$$hole, but I flat out told people "your situation is not worth me getting sued or going to jail over". I then directed them to their state legislator to change the laws if they were that pi$$ed over response times.

I just don't care.

[MP_Steve]

Yeah, the reason its like that in my home state is over a decade ago a deputy struck a car while responding lights only to a call. The family of the occupants sued and won initially I believe, then it was appealed to the state supreme court who overturned the ruling, saying that police aren't liable for T/As while responding to emergencies. I was in middle school when that happened, and I no longer reside there so things may have changed in the years since.

[Gutwrench]

Insurance companies are their own animal. You can be cleared of fault criminally, but still be held civilaly liable for the crash.

1. From the ten thousand foot level, a California police officer is fully indemnified by their agency as long as they are acting within the "scope of his or her employment." The entity will pay for the civil defense and settlement or award. There have been several jaw dropping examples of officers being indemnified for some wholly stupid acts. As long as you are doing your job and your actions are not totally outrageous you can expect to be indemnified.

2. Unless something has changed dramatically over the past few years, most cities and counties in CA are self insured entities.