Need Help for a PA moving violation!

[DaveSS]

Hello everyone my name is David Serleen and I am in need of some advice. I am a 23 year old college student who was recently laid off from work. I have never in life had a speeding ticket, or any other type of "point" worthy violation. I was visiting my girlfriend in Bensalem pa about a week ago and had to pick her up from work, I was asked to take her co-worker home so i said no problem. On the way back to my girlfriends house I ran a stop sign and was pulled over. The officer said I was filmed and blatantly passed right through the stop sign, a few minutes later he returns to my car with the citation not informing me that it yeilded points on my license. I have yet to go back to the scene of the infraction to check for myself if there was any debris or snow (since we got about a 19 inch storm that week). I know i have only been driving for about 7 years but in those 7 years I've been a very very cautious driver and i hope noone takes this as cocky in any way but I consider myself a very safe/good driver for my age. My question is will the judge drop the charge after reviewing my driving history, or will there atleast be some type of plea bargin?? I know its only a few points but I just cant afford it and I'd feel like crap because I'm on my mothers insurance plan, and she ALSO just got laid off from the whole wellsfargo joining with some other place ordeal. I dont want to come off as some brat that wants to get out of a ticket, I worked very hard and I really want my CDL. I just feel like since it was the last day of the month I got screwed over, and it sucks because I've owned nothing but high horsepowered cars and never had one violation, I always knew that was what the track is for.


Thanks guys.

[mcsap]

Hello everyone my name is David Serlen and I am in need of some advice. I am a 23 year old college student who was recently laid off from work. I have never in life had a speeding ticket, or any other type of "point" worthy violation. I was visiting my girlfriend in Bensalem pa about a week ago and had to pick her up from work, I was asked to take her co-worker home so i said no problem. On the way back to my girlfriends house I ran a stop sign and was pulled over.Not good.


The officer said I was filmed and blatantly passed right through the stop sign, Not good.a few minutes later he returns to my car with the citation not informing me that it yeilded points on my license.We aren't required to tell you about points. I have yet to go back to the scene of the infraction to check for myself if there was any debris or snowIt would be a little LATE now to do this and I am not sure how that would explain why you blew a stop sign. (since we got about a 19 inch storm that week). I know i have only been driving for about 7 years but in those 7 years I've been a very very cautious driver and i hope noone takes this as cocky in any way but I consider myself a very safe/good driver for my age. OK, you are a good driver who blew through a stop sign.My question is will the judge drop the charge after reviewing my driving history, or will there atleast be some type of plea bargin?? I guess he could but your reward for driving well comes as reduced insurance rates , your rewards for driving unsafely...[B] I know its only a few points but I just cant afford it and I'd feel like crap because I'm on my mothers insurance plan, and she ALSO just got laid off from the whole wellsfargo joining with some other place ordeal. I dont want to come off as some brat that wants to get out of a ticket, I worked very hard and I really want my CDL. I just feel like since it was the last day of the month I got screwed over,Are you accusing the officer of having a quota ?? and it sucks because I've owned nothing but high horsepowered cars and never had one violation, I always knew that was what the track is for.


Thanks guys.

My answers are embedded.

We dont have to prove intent for a traffic violation. Either you did it or you didn't. The officer MIGHT be able to offer you something but I think he would have already done so , if he wanted to.

Lastly , your insinuation that we have an end of the month quota is a slap in the face to police officers everywhere. We are sworn officer of the law. There are PLENTY of people in high horsepower cars ( or 4 cylinder beaters) that run stop signs , speed or drive recklessly all of the time. We don't have quotas.

If I were the officer , the LAST thing I would do is offer to make any kind of a deal with you.

Drive low horsepower cars and you'll save your mom a ton of money on her car insurance.

[DaveSS]

I didnt know about the quota thing at all i meant nothing by it. But this is what im talking about why wouldnt you offer me any kind of deal? Because I got LAID off and can't pay it? Or is there something else i dont know that you do. And save my mom money? Ive paid every bill i had since I had a job. And just like plenty of civilians AND officers love cars. I would think you would give me a thumbs up for only taking speed to the track. Its a shame there are officers like you who just make assumptions about people without knowing them.

[greg72982]

plead not guilty and ask for leniency...

[cntryboy0531]

I didnt know about the quota thing at all i meant nothing by it. But this is what im talking about why wouldnt you offer me any kind of deal? Because I got LAID off and can't pay it? Or is there something else i dont know that you do. And save my mom money? Ive paid every bill i had since I had a job. And just like plenty of civilians AND officers love cars. I would think you would give me a thumbs up for only taking speed to the track. Its a shame there are officers like you who just make assumptions about people without knowing them.

Chief, If I had a quarter for everyone who told me "I can't afford this because of ___" I'd be retired and living on a tropical island somewhere. Just because of whatever financial sitution you are in, does not make you above the law, or that you deserve any kind of break, anymore than the person next to you does. Everyone wants a break, and no one can afford a ticket. If your truthfully can't afford it you should pay extra special attention to how you drive to avoid getting a ticket. Sorry, sometimes a traffic infraction results in a ticket. Everyone has a SOB Story as to why they don't deserve one. Finances, I know a cop, judge, I work hard for a living, etc. If we accepted every excuse in the book as a reason for committing a traffic violation, there would be no point to even enforcing traffic laws. They have to be enforced.

If you have a problem with payment, contact the court. They might be able to work with you for payment arrangements. Getting mad because you are in a bad financial spot and not offered special treatment is in poor class and reflects poorly upon your ability to accept responsibility for whatever you have done.

[DaveSS]

I completely understand what your saying. Im just trying to save myself from the points. I will pay extra money for the plea bargin as long as its no points. My driving record means alot to me and my future.

[marinepilot]

I dont want to come off as some brat that wants to get out of a ticket, I worked very hard and I really want my CDL. I just feel like since it was the last day of the month I got screwed over

And yet that is exactly how you come across, as some brat trying to get out of a ticket. Especially with that comment about it being the last day of the month. I feel that mcsap did a good enough job telling you how we feel about that, so I'll let it go for now...

But this is what im talking about why wouldnt you offer me any kind of deal? Because I got LAID off and can't pay it? Or is there something else i dont know that you do.

And here is the answer to your first question in the quote above. He probably wouldn't have offered you a deal, as well as the officer that cited you did not offer you a deal, because you most likely had a bad attitude about the stop. None of us here were there, so we don't know for sure, but evidenced by the way you are writing about it, I would bet a good portion of a paycheck you gave the officer some lip.

And save my mom money? Ive paid every bill i had since I had a job. And just like plenty of civilians AND officers love cars. I would think you would give me a thumbs up for only taking speed to the track. Its a shame there are officers like you who just make assumptions about people without knowing them.

And again, as country boy has told you, if we had even a nickel for all the reasons we hear, we'd be done working within our first year as LEO's, retired on a sum of money that would rival Mark Zuckerbergs! We don't take into account that your mom is paying your insurance, or that you've been a good bill payer for XX number of years. We take into account that you ran a stop sign just now, thereby endangering others who are also using the roads and most likely paying attention and driving legally. And how well do you think we get to know a person in the few minutes we encounter them while performing a traffic stop?

Then you end your post spewing attitude by telling mcsap it's a shame he's the way he is when he is a valued and verified member of this board, not to mention a very experienced law enforcement officer!

I completely understand what your saying. Im just trying to save myself from the points. I will pay extra money for the plea bargin as long as its no points. My driving record means alot to me and my future.

Put this one out of order because this next quote is your best bet...

plead not guilty and ask for leniency...

Most hearing officers I know for traffic will look at your history, and if yours is as good as you say it is, you've probably got a shot and ditching the points and getting a reduced fine (you would in Florida anyway). Just don't go into the court room with the attitude you've shown here. Plead your case, let the person make their decision, and live with it.

[mcsap]

In PA , the fine for blowing a stop sign ( and a host of other violations ) is FIXED. A judge cannot reduce it.

Fine $25
EMS $10
MCARE $30
COSTS $35.50
JCP $10

Grand Total is 110.50

None of these amounts can be reduced , they are set by the state.

In PA , judges don't give or take away points. Points are issued by PennDot based on the offense. And the point offenses are pre-determined. If found guilty of a point offense , a judge cannot erase the points.

We don't have driving school like a lot of other states. What we have is that if you get too many points , you have to take your drivers test ALL OVER again. And the driver examiner is going to be tough on you compared to the 16 yr old kid with a permit.

I just caught a guy the other night who was suspended because he failed his re-exam. ( because he got too many points).

Points go away at the rate of three per year. AS long as you dont get any more MOVING violations during that year. And since a stop sign is 3 points , a year from now someone will be back to zero.

CDL holders are not penalized in any extra way for violations committed in a non-CDL vehicle. 3 points is 3 points.

" I didnt know about the quota thing at all i meant nothing by it. But this is what im talking about why wouldnt you offer me any kind of deal? Because I got LAID off and can't pay it? Or is there something else i dont know that you do. And save my mom money? Ive paid every bill i had since I had a job. And just like plenty of civilians AND officers love cars. I would think you would give me a thumbs up for only taking speed to the track. Its a shame there are officers like you who just make assumptions about people without knowing them. "

Your reference to the " end of the month " was quite loud.

We dont have to offer ANYONE ANYTHING. You blew a stop sign , a dangerous act. Why should we give you anything ? I made an assumption based upon what and how you posted. It's too bad people like you blow stop signs and than expect ( demand) that we cut you a break.

There is nothing wrong with having a nice car. But to complain about the cost of insurance when YOU place yourself there to begin with by being young and having a high performance car ??!!

I drive a 10 year old Honda Civic LX. 1.7 SOHC engine. Not an SI , not a turbo , not even a DOHC. I could certainly afford a " nice " car , a FAST car etc. but I am happy with what I have.

[greg72982]

I completely understand what your saying. Im just trying to save myself from the points. I will pay extra money for the plea bargin as long as its no points. My driving record means alot to me and my future.

Depending on a number of factors it is sometimes possible to plea to a lesser charge, or sometimes the judge will find you guilty of that lesser charge regardless of what the cop wants.

In this case that would be obedience to traffic control devices. The fine would not change but the points will(none). If you are not currently a CDL holder it wil not show up on your driving record either, whereas the stop sign violation would. Payment plans are usually an option.

BTW I agree with the quota comments, that is definitely what you were implying.

[Legoate]

In PA , the fine for blowing a stop sign ( and a host of other violations ) is FIXED. A judge cannot reduce it.

Fine $25
EMS $10
MCARE $30
COSTS $35.50
JCP $10

Grand Total is 110.50

In CA the red light fine is around $465 now. Everyone I stop tells me they can't afford it.

[marinepilot]

In CA the red light fine is around $465 now. Everyone I stop tells me they can't afford it.

I'll have to remember that when I give someone a blown red light ticket here. It's a $264 fine. When the get upset, I'll just say "Be glad you didn't do it in California!"

[greg72982]

Dear God. I thought $110 was outrageous.

[Joeyd6]

So bottom line as mscap pointed out is if found guilty you will:
1) Pay $110 fine
2) Get 3 points on your license, which automatically come off your license and driving history if you continue to drive safely in one year.

As for being worried about insurance rates, if it truely is your first ticket, you typically will see no rate increase. Insurance companies do not check driving history on established policy holders who have no at fault accidents. If you change companies, then they will see. If you get to two tickest within 12 months, the state usually electronically notifies them of every ticket conviction (tend to ignore the first), then you will have a rate increase. Thus you will have no real costs for an insurance increase. Pull out your policy and read the pages nobody does. My policy states "Minor violations: two or more will result in......" Bet your has the same!

Additionally, from the paperwork I have, in the State of NJ, here is what rate increases are for 3 years after the violation (assuming it is your first accident or your secon ticket within 36 months):
Customer of 0-2 years: .85%
Customer of 3-5 years: .80%
Customer of 6-9 years: .75%
Customer of 10+ years: .70%

Thus, the increase in NJ is just under 1% of the policy premium for a second offense.

[DaveSS]

And yet that is exactly how you come across, as some brat trying to get out of a ticket. Especially with that comment about it being the last day of the month. I feel that mcsap did a good enough job telling you how we feel about that, so I'll let it go for now...









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And here is the answer to your first question in the quote above. He probably wouldn't have offered you a deal, as well as the officer that cited you did not offer you a deal, because you most likely had a bad attitude about the stop. None of us here were there, so we don't know for sure, but evidenced by the way you are writing about it, I would bet a good portion of a paycheck you gave the officer some lip.



And again, as country boy has told you, if we had even a nickel for all the reasons we hear, we'd be done working within our first year as LEO's, retired on a sum of money that would rival Mark Zuckerbergs! We don't take into account that your mom is paying your insurance, or that you've been a good bill payer for XX number of years. We take into account that you ran a stop sign just now, thereby endangering others who are also using the roads and most likely paying attention and driving legally. And how well do you think we get to know a person in the few minutes we encounter them while performing a traffic stop?

Then you end your post spewing attitude by telling mcsap it's a shame he's the way he is when he is a valued and verified member of this board, not to mention a very experienced law enforcement officer!



Put this one out of order because this next quote is your best bet...



Most hearing officers I know for traffic will look at your history, and if yours is as good as you say it is, you've probably got a shot and ditching the points and getting a reduced fine (you would in Florida anyway). Just don't go into the court room with the attitude you've shown here. Plead your case, let the person make their decision, and live with it.

nope i gave the officer no lip at all. I never do. maybe when i was a kid which ALL of us did. But ive grown up, Im not a brat im 23 years old who HAD a full time job at Kennedy hospital to help my mom with bills, so like i said before dont assume. I have already spoke to someone at the court when i went to set up a court date, she said they always take away the points and the price WILL go up because of the plea bargin, but taking away the points is more important. Trust me i respect cops for keeping me safe but when I give the best respect to them i would like it in return, if your having a bad day don't take it out on me and I will do the same.

[mcsap]

Well your speaking to someone at the court ( who is not permitted to give any legal advice) isn't the same as BEING there. They ( the judges ) don't always do ANYTHING. Some do certain things and some don't. It is not possiblle to increase the fine for a simple stop sign violation. The fine is FIXED. A judge cannot tell the DMV what to do. in some states , judges have the authority to remove or waive points, PA judges CANNOT do this.

Meaning if you are found guilty of a stop sign , you WILL get 3 points. If you were to be found guilty of some other offense , that could change.