Interesting Traffic Stop

[MURPH50]

I was pulled over on a rural county road for allegedly speeding. I don't think he was accurate in his assessment of the speed of the road where he clocked me. He was in the oncoming shoulder and was shooting down a long, straight unlit road - it was well before the speed changed and he had his lights already on as I was approaching the sign.

I was polite and professional to the state police officer, turned on my dome light, and told him what I was doing in my car, etc. I told him what I thought, but did not argue, and was respectful, yes sir, no sir, etc. I advised him at his request that I had a valid license, no points or violations, and that I was well aware of the speed limit.

He took my license, left, and told me he was going to cut me a break - and gave me a ticket for a completely unrelated, moving violation, with no points and likely a lesser fine. I told him I didn't commit that violation. He asked if I wanted the speeding ticket. I told him thoughtfully "to do what he thought was best." However, not only can I easily prove I wasn't committing this violation (a cell phone violation, where my bill clearly can show a pattern of me calling home from my office and then being slient for 0:45 minutes, then being used 0:15 from the stop at my house), but hypothetically speaking, I may happen to have a digital recording from his second visit of three to my car onward of him not only telling me he was issuing me a ticket for something I didn't do, but specifically not to go to court since he cut me the break. The summons like most is signed under penalty of perjury. How do I either argue the merits of the original case, or negotiate a dismissal or a parking ticket without throwing the officer under the bus. I don't think he was correct, but do think he was trying to cut me a break. My company frowns on cell phone violations and it does appear as a no point violation on my driving record, probably more so than the original citation, perhaps.

[Outshined]

Plead not guilty, and have a trial.

[Samuel]

I was pulled over on a rural county road for allegedly speeding. I don't think he was accurate in his assessment of the speed of the road where he clocked me. He was in the oncoming shoulder and was shooting down a long, straight unlit road - it was well before the speed changed and he had his lights already on as I was approaching the sign.

I was polite and professional to the state police officer, turned on my dome light, and told him what I was doing in my car, etc. I told him what I thought, but did not argue, and was respectful, yes sir, no sir, etc. I advised him at his request that I had a valid license, no points or violations, and that I was well aware of the speed limit.

He took my license, left, and told me he was going to cut me a break - and gave me a ticket for a completely unrelated, moving violation, with no points and likely a lesser fine. I told him I didn't commit that violation. He asked if I wanted the speeding ticket. I told him thoughtfully "to do what he thought was best." However, not only can I easily prove I wasn't committing this violation (a cell phone violation, where my bill clearly can show a pattern of me calling home from my office and then being slient for 0:45 minutes, then being used 0:15 from the stop at my house), but hypothetically speaking, I may happen to have a digital recording from his second visit of three to my car onward of him not only telling me he was issuing me a ticket for something I didn't do, but specifically not to go to court since he cut me the break. The summons like most is signed under penalty of perjury. How do I either argue the merits of the original case, or negotiate a dismissal or a parking ticket without throwing the officer under the bus. I don't think he was correct, but do think he was trying to cut me a break. My company frowns on cell phone violations and it does appear as a no point violation on my driving record, probably more so than the original citation, perhaps.

Go to court and do whatever you think is right.

[MURPH50]

Prima face, would there be consequences for him if he were proven to issue an knowingly incorrect citation (even if his intent was just). I don't want to harm the guy, just don't want to lose my day in court for what he alleges I originally did (even if the lesser citation is far easier to challenge).

[MURPH50]

And can this backfire and he "re-cite" me for the original violation?

[Citicop]

Prima face, would there be consequences for him if he were proven to issue an knowingly incorrect citation (even if his intent was just). I don't want to harm the guy, just don't want to lose my day in court for what he alleges I originally did (even if the lesser citation is far easier to challenge).

How, pray tell, will you prove he "knowingly" issued you an incorrect citation? He thought you had passed the sign from his position, and you say you didn't.

Cops aren't right 100% of the time. That's why there's a court and a trial. Maybe he made a mistake, but I don't think that you'll earn yourself any points (here or in court) if you accuse the officer of lying on purpose without some evidence to back it up.

-Citicop.

[MURPH50]

As I said, there may be a digital audio recording of our 2nd and 3rd interations where he clearly states he is citing me for something else than what he originally alleges I did - and the offense he charged me with I think is reasonably refutable with evidence - such as my cell phone bill, whose usage would be very consistent with the trip I took, including a timestamped call of me calling home before I left.

At this point, the issue isn't the speeding, it's the cell phone cite.

[Citicop]

So go plead not guilty.

If it is a point of honor for you not to plead guilty to a crime you didn't commit (which happens all the time in plea bargains in court) then fight it in court. If they find you guilty instead of the initial violation then you face those consequences.

This is exactly why I don't give people that kind of break. I either cite for an observed violation or I give people a warning.

I don't condone what the officer did, but you admit that you seem a little ungrateful if he wrote you a lesser charge with fewer points and a lower fine...

-Citicop.

[G35 Mass]

I PERSONALLY don't agree with writing for another violation to "cut you a break". I'm aware that it is practice in some states by some officers.

Now, your "hypothetical" situation of "accidentally" recording the officer may "hypothetically" land you in jail for recording him without his consent if this "hypothetically" took place in a state has a "two-party" consent law.

Be careful what you hypothetically bring to a hypothetical court...

[greg72982]

In PA we reserve the right to amend back to the original charge if we wish. I don't do that. What I cite for on the street is what the hearing is on.

[mcsap]

Yes , I can withdraw and refile the original violation.

If I were to offer to write a lesser violation , I would do so by informing you that I am, going to do this. I also inform you that if you disagree with the lesser non-point offense, I will issue the original violation.

I never arbitrarily do this. I do this with the drivers full knowledge and " blessing " but if for any reason you don't agree with the lessser non-point offense....it's back to the points. I would let you decide on which way you want to go.

In my state , non-point offfenses do not even appear on your driving record.

[Kimble]

Prima face, would there be consequences for him if he were proven to issue an knowingly incorrect citation (even if his intent was just). I don't want to harm the guy, just don't want to lose my day in court for what he alleges I originally did (even if the lesser citation is far easier to challenge).

Even if the officer did face consequences of some sort, his department would have no requirement to tell you so you'd never know about it.

[Laww]

It's for this very reason that I do not "cut breaks" on traffic stops. If I am engaging you in a conversation it is mostly due to the fact that I am looking for something more and not because I'm interested in becoming your friend. If you are recording an officer in my state without his knowledge or consent you can and will be charged criminally. Congratulations, you just escalated a traffic citation and turned it into a possible criminal misdemeanor. For the record, the "yes, sir" and "no, sir" verbage doesn't mean alot especially if it is just masking your intent of recording the encounter.

[tcop733]

Wasn't there another thread discussing this very issue?
May have been in the police only forums. Anyway, I always write a citation for what violation I observed. Never even lowered the speed if it were a speeding violation.
If I can't testify to the charge I don't write it.
Personally, don't understand this practice.
Only breaks I've ever cut are defective equipment violations.

[Legoate]

In my department our in car camera records the entire stop. So you could bring your recorder, and I"ll bring mine....we can have one big traffic stop audio fest in court. Sounds like a date...