employment options involving behavioral analysis

[Gwendolynn]

Hi. I posted some of my background in the introduction thread.

I graduated with a B.S. in Applied Behavioral Science and I've been considering a career in law enforcement (along with some other options).

I enjoy interacting with all kinds of people (especially the ones that are "different") and I think that ability would generally be useful in dealing with the public. I'm just wondering if there are any law enforcement agencies or divisions or specific jobs where my scientific background would be considered an asset? I know my education doesn't make me any kind of expert, but this is something I'm very passionate about, and I'd love the opportunity to apply what I know...and more importantly, gain some experience and learn more.

The FBI's BAU is an obvious choice, but the hiring standards are probably WAY-WAY up there. So do other agencies have similar positions? And is there anybody here who works for the FBI and might be able to tell me what they are looking for in a candidate? Do they require a graduate degree, and if so, which would be the best choice?

Sorry about all the questions. I probably sound really naive.

[Kimble]

The FBI's BAU is an obvious choice, but the hiring standards are probably WAY-WAY up there. So do other agencies have similar positions? And is there anybody here who works for the FBI and might be able to tell me what they are looking for in a candidate? Do they require a graduate degree, and if so, which would be the best choice?

I don't work for the FBI, but I am a fed with another agency that has a Behaviorial Science Unit (BSU), and to qualify for one of these positions you have to be a qualified expert (i.e. PhD or other doctoral degree, not just a BS or master's degree). While I can appreciate your interest and enthusiasm, truth is if you're wanting to be a psychological expert (in law enforcement or otherwise) you're going to want to go further with your education and obtain a doctorate. With a BS you can apply for entry level positions like police officer/deputy sheriff/state trooper with local and state agencies (or special agent with federal investigative agencies) to get your foot in the door with an agency.

My personal recommendation would be to apply to be a police officer or street level cop somewhere, and continue with your education once you've finished your academy and field training. All the education in a classroom won't compare to real world experience of being on the streets and dealing with the criminal element of society up close and personal (I'm speaking as someone who got a master's degree BEFORE becoming a cop and seeing firsthand how much I didn't know about the field from all my college courses), and if you wish to eventually work in the law enforcement field, you'll do well to give credibility to what you do as a psychologist in this field if you've worked in the field of those working the streets and know the issues involving officers and criminals at a street level.

If you have pipedreams of walking into any LE agency with any college degree and no real experience and being offered a specialized position of any sort, let me tell you that's not reality. Forget what you've seen on TV and decide if this is something you really want to do, further yourself (in education and experience) so you have a reasonable shot at getting there, as you've still got a long road to get into that sort of specialized field. Good luck.

[Citicop]

Kimble is right on the money.

No offense intended, but I don't know any agency where a bachelors degree in ABS would be considered a "scientific background."

-Citicop.

[Gwendolynn]

Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate the reply.

I know that a bachelor's degree (in anything) is nothing to be proud of, and as I said, it doesn't make me an expert in anything. Probably not the best wording, but by "scientific background" I meant that besides just having a natural ability to deal with all sorts of people (which is something that cannot be taught), I also have a scientific *interest* (not expertise) in human behavior. I would just like to find a way to combine both.

So a PhD in psychology would increase my chances the most? What other factors do they take into consideration(other than the "standard" LE ones)?

How realistic is it to complete a master's/doctorate while working as a "street cop" with those whacky hours and overtime and stress level? Has anyone here done it? I guess it's possible, but would take significantly longer than if you went to school full-time.

Lots and lots to think about. Glad I'm still young. Lol.

[Citicop]

Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate the reply.

I know that a bachelor's degree (in anything) is nothing to be proud of, and as I said, it doesn't make me an expert in anything. Probably not the best wording, but by "scientific background" I meant that besides just having a natural ability to deal with all sorts of people (which is something that cannot be taught), I also have a scientific *interest* (not expertise) in human behavior. I would just like to find a way to combine both.

So a PhD in psychology would increase my chances the most? What other factors do they take into consideration(other than the "standard" LE ones)?

How realistic is it to complete a master's/doctorate while working as a "street cop" with those whacky hours and overtime and stress level? Has anyone here done it? I guess it's possible, but would take significantly longer than if you went to school full-time.

Lots and lots to think about. Glad I'm still young. Lol.

Gwen-

Please don't misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with being proud of acheiving something like earning a degree. A lot of people work very hard for that and they SHOULD be proud when they get it.

Ask yourself this:

"What job do I want to do within Law Enforcement?"

If you want to be a state or local police officer, I say apply now; if you want more education later, then you can always go back (though it does take longer as I found out). Online and evening programs from many colleges make it easier now than it used to be, for sure.

Even if you want to go Federal, I would say you could apply to an agency now. You could go back to school or find a job in a different field while you go through the (long) process, and then go when they call you.

If you are aiming for BAU at the FBI, find the book "Mindhunter" by John Douglas. He talks a lot about the Unit, and what takes to get there. In a nutshell, you have to be hired as an FBI agent first, then prove yourself in a field office for a few years. Then they start letting you work local cases out of your field office, and then if they still like you they select you for the team out of all the other interested agents and you start working cases with them full time (after you get a whole lot of advanced training). An advanced degree would be very very helpful in this scenario.

Hope that made some kind of sense...

-Citicop.

[Kimble]

I know that a bachelor's degree (in anything) is nothing to be proud of, and as I said, it doesn't make me an expert in anything.

That's taking things a bit extreme, don't you think, Gwen? Having a bachelor's degree doesn't make one a subject matter expert, but that doesn't mean you didn't work hard to achieve a noble educational credential. It's a step in the direction you say you want to achieve, just not the end goal itself.

[Joeyd6]

So a PhD in psychology would increase my chances the most? What other factors do they take into consideration(other than the "standard" LE ones)?

Probably but getting a MA in that field requires a full internship and a PhD is evn more with a ton of field work. So when you graduate you hav the paper and experience.

How realistic is it to complete a master's/doctorate while working as a "street cop" with those whacky hours and overtime and stress level? Has anyone here done it? I guess it's possible, but would take significantly longer than if you went to school full-time.

It can be done. I had my masters degree but I got my law degree (JD) while on the job. It was not easy due to scheduling, but anything can be done if you make time.

[Gwendolynn]

Thanks everybody.

Let me ask you this: If I decided to apply to a local police department or sheriff's office, do they usually ask about (long-term) future plans or goals? Most job interviews they ask something along the lines of "where do you see yourself in five years, or ten years?". I was always told to not tell them about wanting to continue my education or wanting to ultimately work in a different field. The logic behind that being that employers don't want to waste their time and resources on someone who may leave for a different job or who might have other major obligations (such as graduate school). So would a local police department not hire me simply because I told them I would like to work for a federal agency one day? I wouldn't *lie* about my aspirations, but I could probably hide my enthusiasm to some extent. They are WAY-down the road goals anyway, so would it be okay to say that that's something I'd like to do in the future, but that for now I just really want some real experience on the street and then figure out if it is something that I want to pursue? I figure it would be *at least* another six years before that would even be an option...so it's not like I'd sticka round for only a couple of years. Or would it be better to apply for an entry-level position at a federal agency because there it's probably "expected" that people will want to move into more specialized fields eventually? Would it be easier to get more training there rather than at a local department or agency?

Oh, and as for the degree thing...I just had a conversation with my dad a few days ago about what he called the "education inflation". That degrees just aren't worth much anymore these days because so many people have them. He said that his father was the first in his family to graduate high school and that was a huge accomplishment, then my dad was the first to actually go to college and earn an undergraduate degree. He said for me, a bachelor's really isn't going to cut it and that I should get my master's (which I intend to). Then my 13-year-old brother asked if he had to get a PhD to be "worth" anything. Lol.

[icu650]

Every Police Officer out there uses Behavioral Science everyday in his/her normal stop of a person, whether it be on the street or in a car. This is what keeps him alive. Although he doesn't have a degree in Behavioral Science he sure learns it within 2 weeks on the street. An excellent Police Officer knows how to use the things he learned (probably the hard way), on the street and apply it to his advantage. He might not know the fancy names for what he has learned but it doesn't matter. Apply to become a Police Officer, use what you learned in college and maybe you will have a little advantage when a dirtbag takes a swing at you.

[Kimble]

So would a local police department not hire me simply because I told them I would like to work for a federal agency one day? I wouldn't *lie* about my aspirations, but I could probably hide my enthusiasm to some extent.

I would advise - and am speaking from personal experience where this occurred - to not tell Agency A during a job interview that you eventually plan to work elsewhere (federal or otherwise). With one PD they hounded me about whether I had federal aspirations (I did) because I had a master's degree, and while the interview went well, I'm certain I didn't get a job offer with them because they weren't convinced otherwise.

I'm not saying to lie about your aspirations if you want to go federal down the road, but I certainly wouldn't actively advertise it.

[Gwendolynn]

Thanks, Kimble. I'll keep that in mind if and when I apply.

This was very helpful, so I'll probably be back with more questions...

[Gwendolynn]

Are you SURE I need to get all that education?? Afterall, the FBI is obviously in dire need for agents. Lol. Sorry, but this ad really cracked me up.

[Kimble]

Are you SURE I need to get all that education?? Afterall, the FBI is obviously in dire need for agents. Lol. Sorry, but this ad really cracked me up.

As a former CJ professor and program director, those sorts of advertisements really get under my skin. To be honest, only the most gullible people fall for them (anyone with half a brain realizes a website that advertises multiple for-profit online college CJ programs is not the most reliable source of recruitment information for any given LE agency, unless you see that info corroborated by the official info on that agency's website), but those were exactly the type of people I used to have enrolling in CJ courses and expecting a CJ degree to guarantee them.

Here's a thread I wrote about this very topic a while back: College Degree Advertising: Do Your Homework!

[Joeyd6]

I would like to see that big boy running.....

Elbow pads? Really? Elbow pads? Whats in all those pockets and how do you keep that vest from flapping around without a zipper?

[Gwendolynn]

Elbow pads? Really? Elbow pads? Whats in all those pockets and how do you keep that vest from flapping around without a zipper?

Guess you'll have to take that online course to find out. Lol.

Looks to me like they recruited him right out of a game of laser tag.