iPhone vs Traffic Ticket / asked & answered

[physicstech]

As a computer technician my friends, and acquaintances sometimes approach me for help with things outside my scope of willingness, or skill. The latest one though I actually wanted to ask a cop about though. Here is the guys idea:
A website where you register a username for free. You then download a $0.99 app on your phone and login via the app. Then as you drive the app will record your current speed, GPS location, and date+time every minute to the site. The goal is to use this as "a defense in court against speeding tickets" Obviously this is stupid if you are actually speeding, but hypothetically if the "wrong car was hit by radar/ladar and you were giving the ticket it would prove otherwise" Now I can't vouch for the iPhone's ability to predict speed properly. I tested a free speedometer app on my phone that just shows speed, and doesn't save it anywhere, and it matched pretty well with what my car speedometer said. Anyway I just want to know what you officers think of such an idea. Thanks

PS: Even if all of you think this would work, I really don't feel like using my spare time to learn iPhone programming just to make this one app for this guy. He'll move on to a new crazy idea in a week anyway.

[Citicop]

Your time commitment would be even more than that. Someone would have to go ton court and testify as to the accuracy of the information, calibration, programming of the app, etc.

Without an expert to show the court that there is some accuracy to the thing, it would have no more weightnin court than a signed note from the violator's mommy promising he was going the speed limit.

[manahmanah]

How could you prove it could not otherwise be manipulated to show what the suspect simply wants it to show?

[Safety Steve]

Won't work! How many people have the same time on their watches? Answer is none! The time a person is seen speeding and checked with radar or laser is not documented as well as GPS coordinates for a speeding ticket.


Be Safe.

[physicstech]

Just as I thought. Thanks for the input.
PS: If I were to do it I'd have the data encrypted with AES, and then transmitted over RSA encryption to the server so it would be tamper proof even on jailbroken phones. That still leaves the matter of proving the data was recorded accurately. Hence why I don't want to do it.

[cntryboy0531]

Won't work. Speed would be calculated based on time distance between GPS points. GPS is usually accurate within a range of feet. That range has the potential to create a large margin of error. It's been tried in my court system and is lost every time. We even had a Deputy write someone a speeding ticket based on pacing the vehicle and using speed displayed by GPS as the speed written on the ticket. It was taken to court and the Deputy was eaten alive in court by the defense attorney. It would be the same if someone was trying to beat the a ticket in court by using GPS.

If the day comes where someone uses GPS in court for speeding tickets, an expert would have to testify to everything about how it computes speed, accuracy, etc. Until then, it won't be used.

[scott715us]

p.s. you can't "mistakenly" hit someone with LIDAR (laser). The red dot goes on the car you're interested in tracking (sort of like laser tag). It's a very small dot and you're only going to hit the target you're interested in. No error (EVER) on LIDAR.

[ChaosXIW]

p.s. you can't "mistakenly" hit someone with LIDAR (laser). The red dot goes on the car you're interested in tracking (sort of like laser tag). It's a very small dot and you're only going to hit the target you're interested in. No error (EVER) on LIDAR.

Beat me to it! I love when people look at me in court when the judge asks them if they have any questions for me and they immediately say "the car next to me was FLYING, how do you know you got MY car and not theirs?" "Well sir/ma'am, LIDAR is target specific. I look through the scope and pinpoint your car, and pull the trigger. It tells me how fast YOU are driving." "Oh....well I guess I'm guilty then your honor, whatever."

I think it gets even better when people tell me I profiled them. Yes, I profiled you from 1500 feet. My eyes are that good. And if all else fails, ProLASER has a setting on all their units that alerts in a robotic voice "minority approaching".

Seriously, people need to think before speaking. I know they don't have a working knowledge of the LIDAR unit, but common sense would tell anyone that you can't really profile with a LIDAR unit. I play by the rules and people will make any excuse to get out of a ticket.

[physicstech]

I was not aware of how much more accurate LIDAR was over RADAR. That is quite interesting. Hopefully RADAR will be phased out then.

[Citicop]

I was not aware of how much more accurate LIDAR was over RADAR. That is quite interesting. Hopefully RADAR will be phased out then.

Not likely.

RADAR has a lot of advantages too. Because the beam is wider, and it does not have to be precisely aimed, it can be used while the patrol car is in motion, mounted in front and back windows, etc.

They are two tools, but neither will ever completely replace the other.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

You could still build the app and charge suckers for it on the app store, but you'd have to include a big disclaimer that it was for 'entertainment purposes' only, and not for legal use. Just like the disclaimer on those portable breath alcohol sensor machines that you see from time to time.

[mcsap]

In my state you would be sunk because only state APPROVED equipment can be used for speed enforcement. Every device we use MUST be published in a state bulletin by name and manufacturer and have been calibrated by a state approved calibration station. Said book comes out about once a year and if the equipment we want to use ( or the defense wants to use ) isn't in it....then the results CANNOT be used in court.

It is not a matter of accuracy , it is rather a matter of calibration and approval.

I have stopped people who had brand new cars. They calimed their speedometer is calibrated. I said I can show in court that an independant calibration station calibrated my speedo less than 60 days ago , can you ?

To allow such devices to defend against a ticket must then allow us to use similarly uncalibrated/ approved devices to catch you speeding. So I should be able to build one in my garage and use it to catch speeders ?

Thats why.

[scott715us]

You could still build the app and charge suckers for it on the app store, but you'd have to include a big disclaimer that it was for 'entertainment purposes' only, and not for legal use. Just like the disclaimer on those portable breath alcohol sensor machines that you see from time to time.

Exactly. This is the same premise for all those radar detector manufacturers. I'm sure he could still make a killin with it. I would like to see one of his customers in court too..lol

[QldCop]

p.s. you can't "mistakenly" hit someone with LIDAR (laser). The red dot goes on the car you're interested in tracking (sort of like laser tag). It's a very small dot and you're only going to hit the target you're interested in. No error (EVER) on LIDAR.

second the motion!!!!

[greg72982]

I'd give my left nut to be able to use radar.