Question about police procedure for my screenplay.

[harmonica]

In my script a man is chasing a cop with a gun and has fired shots at him. The cop is armed but keeps running as he moves behind the corner of a building. The man chasing him comes around the corner and the cop is hiding somewhere. He runs to the next building corner and the cop wants to attack him and arrest him. The cop doesn't want to shoot, because the gunman has vital information that is a matter of life and death.

So in a real life situation, if a cop is hiding behind a corner, and a gunman was chasing after him that he needed alive, what would he do? Would he fire shots into his legs or would he have a special tackling method to disarm him, and use that first? The cop is by himself and there is no back up at the moment. Thanks.

[Citicop]

If someone is armed and is shooting at you, and you try to tackle them (using a 'special method' or not) that person/officer is probably going to get killed.

If someone is trying to kill me (and this guy is trying to kill the cop by both chasing and shooting), I don't care how bad I need the information. I will defend myself with deadly force. The only appropriate response (in the non-hollywood real world) is to shoot back at the guy, or to get away and try to get him alive another time when you have more people and a better tactical position.

-Citicop.

[harmonica]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. What if as the cop is hiding, and the shooter is after him, he hears the shooter curse and as the shooter comes around the corner, the cop sees him chuck his pistol, as if it were empty? Would you, as a cop, then run and tackle him, without shooting? The cop's friend has been kidnapped though so taking him alive is important to him as well.

[Citicop]

No, I as a cop, would not assume that the pistol was empty just because the bad guy checked it. He could easily have checked it and found it to be loaded still. In fact, his check could have been done because he just finished reloading or changing magazines.

Cops don't shoot to wound in real life, and they don't charge at and try to tackle armed suspects who are chasing them and trying to kill them. Deadly force is met with deadly force.

Now maybe if the bad guy found his gun was empty and got rid of it, I might try to go hands on, but there would be no guarantee that the bad guy did not have a second gun or a knife, etc.

I would be more likely to order the bad guy to the ground from behind cover. If he complies, I arrest him. If he flees, I can chase him, and if he shoots, I can shoot him.

-Citicop.

[harmonica]

No I didn't say he checked the pistol, I wrote he chucked the pistol as in relinquished it. Now the gunman is holding no gun and running away. He may still have a second weapon, but as the cop, your friend's life is at stake and you want to get info out of the man to save him. Would you run up to him from behind and tackle him down by surprise, then press your gun to him and tell him 'don't move'?

[tcop733]

In the script have the bad guy/turd/perp armed with something else capable of inflicting harm, but not definitively used as deadly force. Heck I don't know what it could be, you're the writer so you think of it.
That way maybe this officer, who badly needs this bad guy to stay alive, has the option of using some other form of force.
A gun, knife, club/bat, leave very few alternatives for the officer in this situation.

[mcsap]

You apparently want to write a scene that isn't true to life so in the truest Hollywood fashion .....go ahead.

If someone is shooting at me trying to kill me , I will return the favor. I will NEVER EVER assume that someone who has tried to kill me is unarmed and a non threat until I KNOW that they are unarmed and are a non threat.

We don't shoot to wound. A gun is a deadly weapon and if I am obliged to use deadly force , my intent is that the results are deadly. The wild west cowboys " wing " people on tv. And that is where that line of thought needs to remain.....on tv because it isn't real.

[retdetsgt]

We shoot to eliminate the threat, not necessarily to kill, but that's how it often ends.

I've actually investigated a couple of police shootings where the officer literally shot the gun out of the guy's hand. It wasn't intentional as in the movies, but their subconscious in the heat of the incident saw the gun as the threat and shot at it rather than the person. Both cops were excellent shots by the way in their own right.

[kels]

I sincerely thought about answering this question.
Then I decided to just add the asker to ignore file.

[Aussie George]

We shoot to eliminate the threat, not necessarily to kill, but that's how it often ends.

I've actually investigated a couple of police shootings where the officer literally shot the gun out of the guy's hand. It wasn't intentional as in the movies, but their subconscious in the heat of the incident saw the gun as the threat and shot at it rather than the person. Both cops were excellent shots by the way in their own right.

There was a case years back in South Australia where the patrol came across a suspect for an armed robbery. Suspect pulls gun, cop shoots as both cops go for cover. (the cops and the bad guy sort of came across each other by surprise. At that point a green mist appeared immediately all over the bad guy and he ran away. Initially the cops couldn't work out what the hell had happened, but turns out the bad guy was holding a green can of spray paint for some reason and the bullet hit that exploding the can covering bad guy in paint.

Made it easy to identify him later.

[harmonica]

We shoot to eliminate the threat, not necessarily to kill, but that's how it often ends.

I've actually investigated a couple of police shootings where the officer literally shot the gun out of the guy's hand. It wasn't intentional as in the movies, but their subconscious in the heat of the incident saw the gun as the threat and shot at it rather than the person. Both cops were excellent shots by the way in their own right.

You say cops aren't suppose to shoot to wound. However, what if the gunman had information to a kidnapping and someone's life is at stake? Is it expected procedure for the cop to shoot to wound, in that scenario?

[Curt581]

I'm going to start out by saying this scenario is so ridiculously far-fetched that words fail me.

No bad guy is going to be foot chasing a cop while shooting at him. Bad guys want to get away. No cop worth a damn is going to be fleeing from an armed shooter in a protracted foot chase, if he's still armed and able to engage the shooter. The furthest I'd move is to the closest cover, even then I'd be continuously firing back at the shooter.

You say cops aren't suppose to shoot to wound. However, what if the gunman had information to a kidnapping and someone's life is at stake? Is it expected procedure for the cop to shoot to wound, in that scenario?

Hellooooo... if he's shooting at me, then MY life is at stake! I have to save my own life before I can save anyone else. How can I save the kidnap victim if I'm dead?!

Ever try to shoot a handgun after running... even 50-100 feet after being shot at? Your blood will be pumping, your breath wheezing, your hands will be shaking, you won't be able to hit anything, let alone a man-sized target, even worse a small area in where you're trying to wound him. It just doesn't work. Most cops are doing good if they can keep all the bullets inside a 12 inch circle while standing and firing calmly. Hit the guy in the hand after running? Not happening.

'Shooting to wound' is useless. Do you know how many gunman have kept shooting after they've been shot, even several times? We're trained to shoot for center mass, and to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.

We won't even get into being the subject of a civil lawsuit for deliberating wounding someone with a firearm. That's torture. We don't do that. We shoot to stop the threat. Period.

You're twisting and fudging what you believe to be 'procedure' to fit your Hollywood-style story. You can't do that and keep some semblance of "real life".

Either write 'Hollywood', or write 'real life'. You can't do both.

[Curt581]

I'm gonna give you some real advice, then I'm done answering any and all of your questions.

You're writing a screenplay, so my guess is, you're going to try to sell it to some Hollywood studio or otherwise make money from it.

To make money, you have to write what people will pay to watch. In other words, get rid of the cops and cop procedure crap. Stop inventing new and bizarre scenarios and asking us if they fit reality. People don't care about reality. They get enough reality at home and at work.

Put in sparkly vampires. People pay good money to see that.

[greg72982]

Put in sparkly vampires. People pay good money to see that.

Sparkly vampires?!?!? I'm already sold.

[Gutwrench]

I respect your interest to ask these questions so I will give you my real life perspective. My goal is to help you understand why you might not be getting direct answers to your questions.

First, I worked in a very active area, but that doesn't make what I am about to say less applicable to cops in smaller less active departments. As I recall most officer involved shootings occur between 0 - 10 feet (pretty evenly split between 0-6 and 7-10 feet) with an average number of rounds exchanged between 3-6 and a time duration of 1-3 seconds. For those of us who have gone through this type of critical incident it is profoundly violent and terrifying. But it not only changes the officers directly involved but the whole team but it doesn't stop there. It changes things at home as the spouse and children spend private time thinking about how delicate life is and how those 1-3 changed their life. In those few seconds there is not time to sight in the shooter's legs but rather instinct kicks in to survive. That's real life.

I know you are trying to write an entertaining fictional story as accurately as possible. I won't presume to talk for other cops but only for myself. When working the street things can get real serious real fast. Cops deal with the genuine potential of a life threatening incident occurring at any moment of the shift. Cops who haven't been in an OIS knows someone who has been. There isn't a cop working on this planet who doesn't personally know someone killed in the line of duty. So I (we) take this subject seriously and to a large degree very personally. It is real life for the police officer not a work of fiction.

When faced with a threat who is trying to kill you, you respond in kind. A cop has a duty to eliminate that threat. A cop has a duty to stay alive for his/her family, his/her partner, his/her department, and for his/her community.

Good luck with your book. I wish you well.