Questions about conceal carrying and self-defense...

[FireBirdDS]

I have a lifetime carry permit obtained in Indiana, and have recently purchased a handgun, specifically a Springfield XD .45 compact. I'm planning on taking a handgun training and safety course soon. My first question is, do police departments offer any such classes to civilians?

My other major concern is, in the heat of the moment (hopefully never) if I ever felt threatened to pull my firearm for my own defense and/or the defense of another person (loved one, friend, total stranger), one of my hesitations to opening fire would not only be the taking of a person's life, but any repercussions I might conceivably face from law enforcement from my actions.

I guess my major question is, in the eyes of a police officer what constitutes a just cause for a law-abiding citizen (whether in his home or in public) to draw his weapon and open fire on an assailant? Also, what would the such citizen expect to go through with law enforcement in the aftermath of such an event?

[Samuel]

I have a lifetime carry permit obtained in Indiana, and have recently purchased a handgun, specifically a Springfield XD .45 compact. I'm planning on taking a handgun training and safety course soon. My first question is, do police departments offer any such classes to civilians?

My other major concern is, in the heat of the moment (hopefully never) if I ever felt threatened to pull my firearm for my own defense and/or the defense of another person (loved one, friend, total stranger), one of my hesitations to opening fire would not only be the taking of a person's life, but any repercussions I might conceivably face from law enforcement from my actions.

I guess my major question is, in the eyes of a police officer what constitutes a just cause for a law-abiding citizen (whether in his home or in public) to draw his weapon and open fire on an assailant? Also, what would the such citizen expect to go through with law enforcement in the aftermath of such an event?

How the heck did you get a "lifetime carry permit" without knowing the answers to these basic questions??

[bluelightzgrl]

How the heck did you get a "lifetime carry permit" without knowing the answers to these basic questions??

The same way they get a permit and think it's ok to carry onto Federal property and/or hospitals.

[mcsap]

I have a lifetime carry permit obtained in Indiana, and have recently purchased a handgun, specifically a Springfield XD .45 compact. I'm planning on taking a handgun training and safety course soon. My first question is, do police departments offer any such classes to civilians?


usually no, the liability can be huge. Call a private range and ask.



My other major concern is, in the heat of the moment (hopefully never) if I ever felt threatened to pull my firearm for my own defense and/or the defense of another person (loved one, friend, total stranger), one of my hesitations to opening fire would not only be the taking of a person's life, but any repercussions I might conceivably face from law enforcement from my actions.


That is a genuine coincern not only for yourself but for those of us in LE

I guess my major question is, in the eyes of a police officer what constitutes a just cause for a law-abiding citizen (whether in his home or in public) to draw his weapon and open fire on an assailant? Also, what would the such citizen expect to go through with law enforcement in the aftermath of such an event?

This is the reason why you NEED some professional firearms training ( not from Billy-Bob) and you will get cleared up no this.

[Switchback]

We do not require any training for permits in Indiana. If I recall correctly, the lifetime permit is just more expensive.


I wish there were training. It really is needed. Hell, the permit does not even address open carry vs. concealed. :(

[FireBirdDS]

I'm feeling a little sorry I even asked on here.

[Switchback]

I'm feeling a little sorry I even asked on here.

Why? There is no need for that.

...and believe it or not, you are subjected to no more criticism than LE when discharging a gun. We ALL need to be able to justify the shoot and we are all at risk of prosecution if you act inappropriately. That's the bottom line. Outside of that, we are just lucky enough to have training... to varying degrees.

[FireBirdDS]

Why? There is no need for that.

I appreciate your graciousness. Regarding the first two replies I got on this post, this is not the first time I've been on the receiving end of sarcasm and/or criticism from someone in law enforcement regarding me as just some dumb irresponsible civilian asking something I either "have no business asking" or I "should know the answer to already [stupid]!"

[Switchback]

You have to understand that some states have a training requirement to get a permit. So, they may be surprised to find that IN does not. While we may come across as abrasive on here (and sarcastic), you will not find too many people being malicious on here. We are just having fun and relaxing on the web.

[FireBirdDS]

I don't suppose there's a way I could direct any future questions to Indiana-only law enforcement on this forum is there? Their opinions/advice is all that matters to me.

[Switchback]

LOL

You have to understand that there are not a ton from Indiana. I am, but I am not the best person for your questions. I am a fed and I don't deal with the CCW stuff. There are a couple IN LEOs, but they may not be on real soon... so be patient.

[scott715us]

I guess my major question is, in the eyes of a police officer what constitutes a just cause for a law-abiding citizen (whether in his home or in public) to draw his weapon and open fire on an assailant? Also, what would the such citizen expect to go through with law enforcement in the aftermath of such an event?

Self-defense is really the most common used justification for deadly-force encounters. It is not up to us LEOs to decide "just-cause." We respond to the scene and prevent any further harm if possible. More than likely your weapon will be seized. You may be arrested on the spot, you may not. Even if the shooting was completely justifiable, you can still be charged. If the investigation reveals that you were defending yourself, you may not be arrested at all. It is ultimately up to the Asst. District Attorney (commonly referred to as ADA here) to decide whether to pursue charges. If they don't htink it was justifiable self-defense, they will then go to the grand jury and ask them to hand down an indictment to charge for homicide, manslaughter, etc. If it was a "clean shoot" as we sometimes call it, it's likely no charges will be applied. It depends on departmental protocol, applicable laws, and how the courts handle things in your neck of the woods.

Even if you're not charged criminally, expect the family of the victim to bring a lawsuit against you in civil court. In American society in this day and age, no matter how irresponsible or reckless someone is, if they're injured or killed, by human nature the family will try to find someone else to blame for it. There is a lower standard of proof in civil court known as the "preponderance of evidence" in legal terms. It simply means that the suspect's family, as the plaintiffs, have to prove that you were guilty of some intentional (or negligent) action that lead to the injury of their relative. If the evidence shows you have more proof on your side (i.e. self defense), then their burden can't be met and you win in court.

To put it short, there are a ton of things that can come upon you for shooting and/or taking a life. The important thing is that you saved your life, the life of a loved one, or even someone you didn't know justifiably. Pulling a gun out when it isn't a life or death situation is what gets most permit/OC holders in trouble. I'm sure an Indiana officer will be along to answer specific questions, but the criminal and civil actions are very similar in most states so I thought I would add my .02.

[Samuel]

Call me crazy but it makes absolutely no sense to me to issue a driver's license and give a Porsche to someone who doesn't know how to drive and what the rules of the road are... A permit to carry and a gun to someone who doesn't know how to use one, doesn't know when to use one, and isn't sure if he would even be willing to use one is arguably a worse idea...

That being said, if you're gonna carry a gun, know when to use it (protect you or someone else from serious bodily injury or death); know how to use it (there are PLENTY of excellent firearms training courses/schools out there - LE training is not necessarily the best); be willing to use it (otherwise, no point in carrying it - plus it could always be taken away and used against you and/or others afterwards); know the ramifications of using it (things could turn out peachy OR you could possibly face criminal charges, civil lawsuits, be shot by the badguy(s), be shot by responding LEOs, shoot the wrong person(s), etc).

[mcsap]

In PA , you can buy the biggest motorhome ( Greyhound bus size ) and as long as it is tagged and used as an RV, you do NOT ceed a CDL.

Get a little dump truck rated at 28,000 lbs and you better have a CDL. Deliver oxygen to nursing homes in a Ford E-250 van ? Need a CDL.

Pull a 35 foot 17, 000 lb 5th wheel trailer with a Ford E-550 Super Duty dually diesel truck tagged as an RV ? No worry , no CDL needed.

The abilty to get a license to carry a deadly weapon places GREAT responsibility on you should you ever use it. When can you get it out ? What if you are " confronted " by someone in a threatening manner ? So the ability to simply " get a license " puts GREAT moral and legal responsibility on you the holder. You could claim ignorance of the requirements that are attached to such a license but you won't get far in court.

If you aren't prepared to use your weapons to kill someone ( should the lawful need arise) , then don't carry a gun. Go get pepper spray. Since you have chosen to carry a gun , go get the best training money can buy ( dont expect it to be free ) and be confident to carry ( and hopefully never use) a gun.

[Legoate]

I'm feeling a little sorry I even asked on here.

The reason the responses you are getting are a bit terse is this- Your question is similar to me going onto a site for commercial airline pilots and telling them I plan to start landing a 737 at LAX,and then asking where I might be able to pick up the approach plates to do it.

You got a permit, bought a gun, and now want to know how to use it to shoot someone in self defense? It's like starting with the advance courses in college without taking any of the basics.

There is nothing cut and dry about using a firearm in self defense. There are so many variables that nobody with half a brain would try to describe to you how to do it without any fear of legal ramifications.

Start at the beginning... learn basic weapons skills from a reputable source. Take courses regarding legal basics- In CA there is a "laws of arrest" course offered by most junior college criminal justice departments- this will give you the basics of use of force and the legal requirements to use force in your state. Lastly, you need the warrior mentality that will let you defend yourself with a firearm without question- a deadly force situation is not when you want to be deciding whether or not you can take the life of another person.

Best of luck to you.