Cousin Arrested: Aggravated Harrassment Charge?

[RockIt]

Thank you, that's informative. His attorney suggested some of that. I then said, so sue her for the $400 and make her miserable in civil court. He said that his attorney said that she probably knows that, and is what the phony allegation is all about. While he has an order of protection hanging over his head, he can't sue her.

[Kimble]

I appreciate your reply. Our entire family is stunned that someone of such high character was arrested, and it was based on "a word, one sentence"

And so, I am curious if this is common? is it the policy of other police departments? And why would anyone on some level talk to the police without an attorney?

His attorney said:

1.) I would have never let you into that police department
2.) I would have never let them speak to you for any reason
3.) And any question they asked, I would tell you to deny, deny, deny.

So, its really aggravating for him that he didn't realize how important it was to never speak with the police even when you KNOW YOU'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

Its not about doing wrong, its about, getting 'trapped' in some policy that the police are going to enforce even though it is not based on credible evidence of any kind. Its one person's word, about something someone supposedly said.

I'm not sure why you're here based on your post above. If you believe the police exist soley to jam up anyone they can and getting citizens in their communities "trapped" in bogus arrests, there's probably not much use this site has for you, as your opinion of the events is going to be baised by your own prejudices against police. No reasonable feedback anyone here gives you is likely to change your mind if you paint all police as persecutors of innocent people. You can't convince a racist how ignorant racism is, the same is true for other prejudices no matter how reasonable an argument against the prejudice is.

[RockIt]

I am a lay person. I don't see the world through a police officers eyes. But, I know a good and decent person when I know them well, a family member.

You can not appreciate the shock wave that is rolling through our family from this. A guy who is as decent a human being as they come. I mean that in every sense.

We are at a loss to understand how his "voice", life track record, and the actual events of this situation, MEAN NOTHING.

In NYC, a woman can apparently, say "He said, "I will kick your butt" and you are going to sit in a jail for 2 days, possibly lose your job, be threatened by the court and prosecutors to plead guilty to something you didn't do, and its going to last at least a year with according to his attorney, several trips to court before it very likely goes away.

[greg72982]

These kind of forums only work if people assume the story is what it is. How can anyone comment on anything using the rule: "I can't see the evidence"

Who on this panel sees any actual evidence?

Would me posting copies of the police report with appropriate stuff whited out change anyone's answers?

Can we operate on the assumption: The police report consists of 1 sentence. The exact words I posted. NOT A SINGLE ADDITIONAL ITEM ON IT. NOTHING.

His lawyer says its the policy of the NYC police to arrest ANYONE who complains they "feel threatened" and no evidence is even vaguely required. His lawyer says that they will not prosecute him because they don't have a chance of convicting him, they simply want him to confess to the crime and take the penalty. FOR DOING NOTHING BUT BEING A DECENT PERSON.

I can't fathom that being the policy of the NYC police but I don't doubt his lawyer (sort of). One person's word and NO EVIDENCE gets someone arrested?

Does this ever happen anywhere else? Is this common law enforcement policy? And why is someone's "word" enough to get someone arrested. And why would they arrest him if they know they have no chance of prosecuting him with "her word alone"

In PA things like this happen all of the time. It's called filing based on information received. We can even file traffic citations on info received from people, but as the complainant you better be prepared to deal with the consequences if it is determined you are lying.

If we could only arrest for things we witnessed this world would be a bigger disaster than it already is.

[Curt581]

I am a lay person. I don't see the world through a police officers eyes. But, I know a good and decent person when I know them well, a family member.

You can not appreciate the shock wave that is rolling through our family from this. A guy who is as decent a human being as they come. I mean that in every sense.

We are at a loss to understand how his "voice", life track record, and the actual events of this situation, MEAN NOTHING.

In NYC, a woman can apparently, say "He said, "I will kick your butt" and you are going to sit in a jail for 2 days, possibly lose your job, be threatened by the court and prosecutors to plead guilty to something you didn't do, and its going to last at least a year with according to his attorney, several trips to court before it very likely goes away.

This is not about being a good or decent person. No one tallies the all good things versus the bad things you've done over the course of your life and weighs the average to decide whether or not you should be arrested for a crime. The only thing that matters is what happened during THAT isolated incident at THAT time and the totality of those specific circumstances.

The policies and laws are the way they are because We, The People decided that's what we wanted. Domestic violence became a hot button issue several years ago, so many states passed "shall arrest" laws. That means, when an officer is presented with evidence or a statement that a domestic violence incident occurred, he MUST, by law, arrest the primary aggressor. There is no discretion. We do not have a choice. Prominent citizens with a helluva lot more stellar reputations than your cousin's have been arrested as a result. Many of them have even been guilty.

As for the shock of someone so unsullied and angelic being arrested, get over it. If she lied, it'll come out. If she didn't, be prepared for another shock... finding out your cousin is just as capable of using bad judgement as anyone else.

[Creeker]

You want to know Irony?

Thank a Lawyer for getting him arrested.

People get arrested all of the time, not based on what they actually DID, but on the potential for what they MIGHT do... all on a Statement from a Victim of some sort.

Do you think an Agency is going to turn him lose with no action if there is a remote possibility that he may act on what he supposedly said? Cops don't know him from Adam, and you are obviously prejudiced in his favor.

If it weren't for civil liability, Law Enforcement would be a much easier job and virtually anybody could put on a monkeysuit and look good doing it.

[Joeyd6]

In NYC, a woman can apparently, say "He said, "I will kick your butt" and you are going to sit in a jail for 2 days, possibly lose your job, be threatened by the court and prosecutors to plead guilty to something you didn't do, and its going to last at least a year with according to his attorney, several trips to court before it very likely goes away.

That is right if the female is your girlfriend/spouse/same sex partner. It is a threat. It is aggravated harassment. It means the person who allegedly said it gets arrested. And by the way, if he did not voluntarily talk to the police, he still would have been arrested.

Another interesting thing you stated is there is an order of protection. While they are not difficult to get, they are not easy either. And when it was given/ordered, your relative was right there in court and had to give his side of the story to the judge. I have never heard of a OOP being given for the claim that guy said "he would kick my butt." There is a lot more to this than you may even know. Maybe she recorded him (which is legal in NY). Maybe the cops heard him say something. Maybe she has phone records or something else.

You only know what your embarrassed relative is telling you. While he may be a great guy, everyone makes mistakes and everyone gets embarrassed when they do something stupid, and usually tend to forget all the facts.

You are complaining about NYS law, not police policy, which none of us here can change. If you don't like it, vote out your representatives and get somebody else in there. If he is truly innocent as he/you claim, this matter will be resolved in the courts and his recored clean. If not, a jury will have decided for him.

Stop putting the cart in front of the horse. Its not the cops job to decide who is telling the truth and what should happen. That is a judge and jury job. Let them do such.

[Cat_Doc]

I am presuming that your cousin is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

[scott715us]

I agree with Joey. There's way too much going into the issue of the actual arrest. Every minute of every hour of every day someone is getting accused of something. The complainant signs a piece of paper and the police are expected to act on it. If the person is making completely false accusations then it will come out in the court(s) and there are remedies (lawsuit) if is proven the complainant is making the whole thing up. Obviously there can be situtations where the District Attorney's office can decide not to pursue a case in court after the police have arrested the violator, but 99% of the time, you will learn in our field that very few suspects are innocent of what they're arrested for. Yes, the standard in our courts is innocent until provent guilty, but considering that over 90% of all cases that even enter the court system (arrest is made, etc) are plea bargained, it should give you an idea that 9/10 people we arrest KNOW they're guilty and take a plea.

[Legoate]

This could have easily been avoided if that "good and decent person" hadn't decided to tell a woman he was going to "kick her butt".

[Piggy]

His attorney said:

1.) I would have never let you into that police department
2.) I would have never let them speak to you for any reason
3.) And any question they asked, I would tell you to deny, deny, deny.

You would almost start to believe attorney's get paid when clients call them.

[retdetsgt]

You would almost start to believe attorney's get paid when clients call them.

We take cash, VISA, Mastercard or Discover, no checks please.......

[mcsap]

There have been a LOT of " good " , " decent" and " upstanding " people arrested. Some were even more decent and upstanding than your cousin.

Pretty much ANYONE is capable of ANYTHING under certain circumstances.

[DeltaV]

His attorney said:
1.) I would have never let you into that police department
2.) I would have never let them speak to you for any reason
3.) And any question they asked, I would tell you to deny, deny, deny.

That's fine. He would have gotten arrested anyway. I can't count the number of people over the years who I have either elected not to arrest or actually unarrested after speaking to them and hearing their side of the story. There are two sides to every story and if someone wants to elect not to make any statements to the police (as is their right) then we're forced to take the one side of the story that we did hear as the truth. Then after you're arrested you can pay an attorney several thousand dollars to get this great bit of advice.

While Florida law doesn't have anything like this harassment charge, there's still no leeway in anything domestic related. Like mcsap said, lawyers are to thank for that by trying to blame the police when people end up murdered by family members or those in a dating relationship. Unless that we can PROVE the alleged offense didn't occur (and that doesn't just mean taking one party's word over another) then the arrest is made and charges are filed. Contrary to what you might believe, a sworn written statement from a victim alleging a crime does constitute evidence. Our state attorney views that as not only evidence, but probable cause for an arrest. Is someone going to get convicted without anything more than that? EXTREMELY doubtful. But you have to remember that probable cause is only required for an arrest while proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required for a conviction. Just because the case won't be successfully prosecuted doesn't mean the arrest wasn't valid.