Question about a crosswalk sting?

[smokeythebear06]

Ok, me and my girlfriend were driving the other day to pay the water bill(she was driving) and we came up on something really interesting. As we pulled on to this street, I see several police cars with there lights on and one had somebody pulled over. I thought there was a fight or something, because I see these two females almost running(or briskly walking) across the street. They get to the middle of the street and stop just as we were really close to the crosswalk and started yelling "STOP!!!". This all happened really fast and I was shocked and had no clue what was going on. The only way my girlfriend could have stopped anyway was if he hit the breaks really hard, and she was in the lane furthest from the people. I thought these people were involved in whatever had happened. All of the sudden we see a police car in the rear view mirror coming up on up with its lights on and we pull over. The officer got out and started yelling at my girlfriend for why she didn't stop and wrote her a citation for VC 21950(a) ((This is in california). After she got the ticket I walked down toward the crosswalk and realized what was happening. The traffic division had two records ladies purposely waiting for cars to come to walk out into the street and see if they would stop because it was a crosswalk. This was not at a stop light or stop sign, it is just a crosswalk in the middle of the road. It is also on a turn(yes very poor place for a crosswalk to be). When we got home I pulled out my Penal Code book and read. What she was cited for says this:
"21950. (a) The driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within any marked crosswalk or within any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, except as otherwise provided in this chapter".
What I found interesting was section b:
(b) This section does not relieve a pedestrian from the duty of using due care for his or her safety. No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard. No pedestrian may unnecessarily stop or delay traffic while in a marked or unmarked crosswalk.
I know there will be a battle in traffic court over rather this was the case, but the lady was waiting for cars to come before she would walk out in the street. She was not waiting till it was "safe". We do plan on fighting this in court, but personally, do you feel that this is not a very good idea safety wise for them to do a sting like this, and have you ever heard of a crosswalk sting like this? And based on your knowlege and experience, do you feel that we have valid defense? I mean people were getting pulled over every minute when I was watching this sting.

[scott715us]

Obviously the officers felt like the ladies were not jumping out in front of vehicles, but crossing at a period where it is safe enough for the driver to stop and obey the crosswalk statute. I do not think that these folks are going to compromise the safety of their personnel in such a situation, hence they will not violate section (b) of the code your girlfriend was cited for. It IS ultimately your word against theirs in court. Your interpretation of "safe" versus theirs is going to be the issue at hand. I know in some areas people ignore crosswalks and the fact that pedestrians, for the most part, have the right away a large majority of the time. I don't have an issue with it as long as it's done safely and encourages people to pay attention to crosswalks and pedestrians in urban areas.

[smokeythebear06]

Obviously the officers felt like the ladies were not jumping out in front of vehicles, but crossing at a period where it is safe enough for the driver to stop and obey the crosswalk statute. I do not think that these folks are going to compromise the safety of their personnel in such a situation, hence they will not violate section (b) of the code your girlfriend was cited for. It IS ultimately your word against theirs in court. Your interpretation of "safe" versus theirs is going to be the issue at hand. I know in some areas people ignore crosswalks and the fact that pedestrians, for the most part, have the right away a large majority of the time. I don't have an issue with it as long as it's done safely and encourages people to pay attention to crosswalks and pedestrians in urban areas.

Yea, I do realize that is what the fight will be over. But my argument is going to be "why would the individual involved in the sting cross the street when it was safe, aka no cars coming?" I watched this lady go back and forth across the street, and what she would do is wait till a she saw a car coming and then just start briskly walking out into the street. She usually got to about the center of the street and the cars were coming pretty close to her. Our car did at least. And I felt that is was very dangerous doing that anyway, because with all the police cars with their lights going off around their, that made it very distracting for drivers, which I feel added to the number of people that didn't notice the records lady walking across the street. And the fact that this crosswalk is placed right on a curve in the road makes it twice as bad. I know where my battle will be. I did feel that that was not a safe sting to do. I can only imagine the liability if she had been hit, because she very close several times.

[smokeythebear06]

Also I realize that my girlfriend got the ticket so obviously she is the one that will have to fight it. I am trying to do everything I can to help her out, but she is the type of person that gets intimidated very easily and can be very soft spoken, and I have a feeling that once she is in the court room with the judge and officers everywhere that she will clam up and won't make her arguments. Are individuals allowed to bring in a witness to traffic court? I would really like to be there and maybe help her, especially since I will probably be the one paying for the ticket anyway(she is really having trouble finding a job in this recession).

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Your girlfriend is gonna lose. If the pedestrian is in the middle of the crosswalk as you stated they were, they're not an immediate hazard. I.e. they didn't JUST enter the roadway.

You threw together an entire post which was critical of the procedures involved in the "sting" as you call it. In traffic court that is all irrelevant to the fact your girlfriend didn't stop when required to by law. Frankly, the judge or hearing officer won't give a rat's anus.

Save her the headache and just pay the ticket.

[smokeythebear06]

Your girlfriend is gonna lose. If the pedestrian is in the middle of the crosswalk as you stated they were, they're not an immediate hazard. I.e. they didn't JUST enter the roadway.

You threw together an entire post which was critical of the procedures involved in the "sting" as you call it. In traffic court that is all irrelevant to the fact your girlfriend didn't stop when required to by law. Frankly, the judge or hearing officer won't give a rat's anus.

Save her the headache and just pay the ticket.

Does it not sound like a sting? Maybe I was using the wrong word, but it was set up where an individual working for the police department(I know because I used to be a volunteer there, which I realize has nothing to do with the ticket in any way but I am just saying how I knew this lady works there) walked back and fourth across the street with the whole traffic division standing by waiting for people to not stop. The reason I felt that she became a hazard was that she came into the roadway very fast. When I first saw these people in the road, I thought they were trying to get away from what ever the hell was happening. They did just shoot out into the street, and the worst part is they came from behind a parked SUV. I just feel that standing on the side of the road waiting for a car to come, then walking out into the road really fast seems like a really bad idea. And when the officer was giving the ticket to my girlfriend, I asked her about it. I said, "If I am a pedestrian I can just walk out into the road when there are cars coming?" She said, "That would be a really stupid idea."; that really made me wonder.

[Sgt. Slaughter]

They did come out into the street really fast, to the point that I thought they were trying to get away from a fight or something.

So? Taken from what you posted:

No pedestrian may suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close as to constitute an immediate hazard.

You had time to watch them leave the curb, enter the roadway and walk across at least one full lane of travel.

Again. Your girlfriend is gonna lose.

[DCF]

If I were a betting man, there is probably video that will be available in court. Tell your story when you go to court. Just remember to tell the truth.

[retdetsgt]

You had time to watch them leave the curb, enter the roadway and walk across at least one full lane of travel.

That's pretty much the program in a nutshell. Even if she had to hit the "breaks" she should have.

People need to start paying attention to what's going on around them. My little town periodically does run those kinds of stings and it's a good thing. There is a major highway running right through town and there aren't a lot of traffic lights. When people are going to or returning from the coast, a pedestrian can stand there for hours if he has to wait for traffic to die down enough to cross.

There are excellent reasons for failure to yield to pedestrians laws. Perhaps this will teach your girl friend to pay more attention to what's going on around her and she'll end up a better driver.

[Outshined]

We do these all the time. We wrote 29 tickets in one hour last week.

[Legoate]

With all the "confusion" with all the police cars with their lights on, I'd slow WAY down to until I could figure out what was going on.

I've never seen a pedestrian "sting" done since I've been an officer, but I have worked particular crosswalks due to citizen complaints or vehicle vs pedestrian collisions.

Seriously take it to court if you think they were acting inappropriately. Judges are there to hear both sides and make a decision based on law. They are also there as part of the checks and balances to make sure police officers are acting in a professional manner.

[GoDirectly2Jail]

Keep in mind if you do take it to court, however, that departments are not likely to go through the effort and expense of targeted enforcement such as what you encountered without making sure sure that all the requirements to make a conviction were not met.

Police admin types just are not ones to like having to answer for why x amount of overtime/manpower was approved for an action for nothing.

[Safety Steve]

With all the "confusion" with all the police cars with their lights on, I will SPEED up to see what is going on!

There, I fixed it for ya!

My experience down here is, if your not behind "them" with your lights on, it must be ok to continue to hammer down! I average about two to three tickets each time I work for Passing Stationary Emergency Vehicle.


Be Safe.

[mcsap]

Peds within a crosswalk ( and if it was so " wrongly " placed , why havn't you complained before but instead wait until your GF got a ticket ? ) have the RIGHT OF WAY. They are defenseless against 3,000 lbs of metal.

The exception is the person/kid who RUNS out into traffic which does not give any driver the opportunity to properly stop. Your GF took her eyes OFF of the road to watch the light show of the police cars. Regardless of how distracting that may seem to be , hse had a DUTY to keep her eyes ON the road and to yiled to any ped in a crosswalk.

I have had people rear end another car while rubbernecking at me with a car pulled over. They got cited for Careless Driving. My fault for making a " distraction " ?? Not a chance. The world is full of bright lights and colorful distractions. It is the DRIVERS responsibility to be in CONTROL of their vehicle in a safe manner at all times.

I am willing to bet their were complaints about drivers failing to stop ( just like we get complaints about speeding) so they went and did a detail.

Go ahead and go to court. This would be an easy court case for me.

[smokeythebear06]

She did slow down alot, but i feel that she was definitely unable to come to a complete stop before the crosswalk. I do realize that there is a legit reason for people to yield to pedestrians, and I am not in anyway saying that it is not important for people to pay attention to pedestrians, but don't pedestrians also have a responsibility to walk into a street when it is safe to do so? I know that I would not have volunteered to do this sting(being the pedestrian) just from what I was watching. I know that obviously there will be an argument over whether the pedestrain was safely entering the roadway or not. As for the individuals who said "Just pay the ticket" why would anybody ever just pay the ticket? I mean you have nothing to lose, and if I ever got a ticket even if I completely knew I was in the wrong and had no chance of proving otherwise, I would still go to court, because I realize that a lot of things can happen in court(the officer not show up, the judge could lessen the fine,...). Thank you for your responses. I really appreciated hearing from people who had experience in this field. I know it doesn't look good, but like I said, we got nothing to lose.
But can somebody bring a witness in to traffic court? I didn't get an answer to that one.