Student charged with 2 summary offenses, please help

[nzcpdac]

Hello,

I am a student at a private university in the Lehigh Valley and Campus Police wrote me up for two summary offenses (Disorderly conduct and Harassment) and sent it to the Magistrate court.

I have read up that summary offenses are considered criminal offenses in the State of Pennsylvania but do not appear in statewide/nationwide criminal databases.

I have to respond to the summons right now and I am not sure if I should plead guilty or not-guilty. What I am worried about is something that will go on my record that will hurt with future employment. I am in the top 1% of my graduating class and have good opportunities for enrolling in top schools. If I plead guilty to this will something go on my record that potential employers or law schools can find out about and deter them from hiring me. Also, if I plead not guilty and hire a lawyer what are the chances of having nothing going on my record in exchange for doing community service or just paying the fine (I have a clean record and have been an upstanding citizen my whole life, I just screwed up and made a mistake this time).

Also if I do plead guilty and pay or plead not guilty and get convicted will I be able to teach in high schools in the state of Pennsylvania? How about outside of PA, will firms or other employers pull up PA state databases if there will be nothing in the nationwide criminal record, etc.

Thank you for your time. I am worried because I want to know if any careers are closed for me. I understand that some places will still hire me and some schools will accept me but I really want to go to the most prestigious schools in the country and I have been working for this my whole life.

[retdetsgt]

You need to talk to a lawyer. After we make an arrest, everything else afterwards is determined by lawyers and the court, not us. A lawyer will have to tell you all your options and consequences.

[nzcpdac]

Just to add one thing I was actually never handcuffed, finger printed or taken anywhere, I was just written up on the spot. I was not offered to sign the actual summons either, it was mailed to me. However, I have read somewhere on these forums that this is still considered as an "arrest". I just wanted to add this in case it makes any difference.

[greg72982]

Hello,

I am a student at a private university in the Lehigh Valley and Campus Police wrote me up for two summary offenses (Disorderly conduct and Harassment) and sent it to the Magistrate court.

I have read up that summary offenses are considered criminal offenses in the State of Pennsylvania but do not appear in statewide/nationwide criminal databases.

That is correct, they do not show up on your criminal record. Unfortunately the great state of PA is very public and you can look up ANY citation (or charge period)on this website: http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/MDJ.aspx which has several kinds of search criteria in the drop down menu.

I have to respond to the summons right now and I am not sure if I should plead guilty or not-guilty. What I am worried about is something that will go on my record that will hurt with future employment. I am in the top 1% of my graduating class and have good opportunities for enrolling in top schools. If I plead guilty to this will something go on my record that potential employers or law schools can find out about and deter them from hiring me. Also, if I plead not guilty and hire a lawyer what are the chances of having nothing going on my record in exchange for doing community service or just paying the fine (I have a clean record and have been an upstanding citizen my whole life, I just screwed up and made a mistake this time).

No one here can tell you how to plead. Whether you plead guilty or are found guilty it will show on the website I showed above if places even know to look at it. Doing community service or paying a fine will be a result of a guilty plea or being found guilty.

Also if I do plead guilty and pay or plead not guilty and get convicted will I be able to teach in high schools in the state of Pennsylvania? How about outside of PA, will firms or other employers pull up PA state databases if there will be nothing in the nationwide criminal record, etc.

These are fairly minor charges. I highly doubt they will affect you for purposes of a career in teaching or for schooling. They wouldn't be auto DQ's necessarily even for police work.

Thank you for your time. I am worried because I want to know if any careers are closed for me. I understand that some places will still hire me and some schools will accept me but I really want to go to the most prestigious schools in the country and I have been working for this my whole life.

I wouldn't get to wrapped around pole over it. As I said before these charges are pretty minor..

Answers in bold.

Just to add one thing I was actually never handcuffed, finger printed or taken anywhere, I was just written up on the spot. I was not offered to sign the actual summons either, it was mailed to me. However, I have read somewhere on these forums that this is still considered as an "arrest". I just wanted to add this in case it makes any difference.

It's an arrest in the sense you are charged with a crime, a traffic citation is also considered an arrest. You would not be fingerprinted for it as it's a summary offense and in PA you are only fingerprinted for misdemeanors or greater. The signature is only to acknowledge receipt of the citation. Since it was mailed to you it's not required.

[greg72982]

double post, please delete.

[ChesCopPodz]

Here's the $100,000 question. Are youi guilty? Did you do what they said you did? If so, plead guilty and take your punishment like an adult. Be glad you only got charged. The campus police here have the authority to not only bring criminal charges, but academic charges too. People have lost scholarships, been suspended and even expelled from the college here, sometimes a week or two before graduation because of interactions with the campus police.

[Joeyd6]

I love when somebody:
1) Has been waiting/working their "whole life for something"
2) Does something illegal
3) Are caught and asked to be accountable for their actions
4) Then they get concerned/care and want a pass/leniency on their first "mistake" so that their dream is not ruined.

There is a sign that was in my NYPD Precinct and I had made for the interview room at my current gig. It is an old school phrase: DON'T DO THE CRIME IF YOU CAN'T PAY THE FINE. One mistake can cost people everything in life....jobs, friends, money, freedom, etc.... There are very few second chances in anything. It is sad most kids these days learn this about 15 years too late.

You never state you are not guilty, which leads me to think you are, and now looking to mitigate the circumstances. While good in theory, the criminal justice system is concerned with one thing: crimes and the punishment. There are consequences for every action. Get a lawyer. They might be able to help you.

[greg72982]

Another point...if they do check the website I stated earlier they will still see you got cited regardless of the verdict. It gives dispositions such as guilty by trial, guilty by plea, dismissed etc.

[nzcpdac]

Joey6,

I did not write whether I am guilty or not because it has no bearing on the information that I am trying to obtain. I did not want this to turn into a debate about that. And since this is a site on which law enforcement officials post, I do not want it to appear that I have no respect for their peers by disagreeing with their judgment, etc. The only thing I am guilty of is being less than courteous to Campus Safety which resulted in these two citations. Everyone makes mistakes as they are human. I have been a model citizen my whole life and have never been in trouble for anything. I was never suspended, arrested, or even reprimanded by any law enforcement personnel until this time. I made a mistake but I do not want to any good opportunities away that I may have because of this. I want to make things right.

I will hire a lawyer but the problem with lawyers is that they want you to hire them and they answer your questions in a way that will lead to you paying for their services. In other words they exaggerate everything. The lawyer that I spoke to recently is very good and is highly regarded in the area. However, this individual told me that the summary offenses WILL show up on my criminal record which is contrary to everything that has been told here. This is what makes me suspect him of exaggerating things. Obviously he wants to be hired just as all lawyers do.

I understand that the information will be available on that docket website unless the Magistrate clears me of all charges. However, what I really want to know is will it actually go on my criminal record or not. I do not doubt the honesty of the officers that have posted here but what the lawyer said has made me nervous. I do not plan to lie on any job applications and I will say that I was cited and received a summons. However, if I am living in the state that I go to graduate school in (will not be in PA) and have residency in that state, why would my employer check that PA Magistrate docket website that was posted above. I have lived in NY for 15 years and when I took an education class in my college I had to get PA background checks for child abuse, etc. as a prerequisite (no one asked anything about NY).

So can someone please confirm if this will actually go on my criminal record or not if I plead guilty or if I am found guilty by the judge. The lawyer basically told me that it will (contrary to what is posted above) and told me that he can get the judge to make a deal with me and give me community service instead of putting something on my record.

I mean Joey6 come on, I have very high grades and have worked very hard for them. I have the ability to get into some of the very best graduate schools in the nation. I worked for years to do this and I want to have a good quality of life. Yes, I messed up I admit that. However, I do not believe that I should not be able to work for a top firm and be denied a job that I love because of this? Do you. I have done plenty of philanthropy and community service before. Im not some screwup or ex-juvenile delinquent. However, that has nothing to do with my question really. Im just concern if this will go on my criminal record or not so if anyone can honestly help me I will really appreciate the time and effort that you take to do this, it means a lot to me. Put yourself in my shoes, obviously you would want to know the same thing...what the coseuqences are going to be and what doors will remain open and which ones will be closed. I can't trust lawyers as I do not know them personally so they will lie or exaggerate just to get hired.

Thank you for your time everyone

[Joeyd6]

I did not write whether I am guilty or not because it has no bearing on the information that I am trying to obtain.

Maybe not on what you are trying to obtain, but is very relevant to the situation and on what kind of person you are. Are you admitting fault and just worried about the consequences or basically saying you are innocent, and the police lied, and you are worried about the consequences.

The only thing I am guilty of is being less than courteous to Campus Safety which resulted in these two citations.

Cops don't cite people for things they did not do. This clearly lets me and others know you are saying the cops summonsesed you for something you did not do. You are saying that the cops lied and made false statements by issuing you a summons. Hmmmm.....

Everyone makes mistakes as they are human. I have been a model citizen my whole life and have never been in trouble for anything. I was never suspended, arrested, or even reprimanded by any law enforcement personnel until this time. I made a mistake but I do not want to any good opportunities away that I may have because of this.

So is the guy who never gets in trouble and then gest behind the wheel drunk and kills somebody. The fact is you can a saint, but once you make a choice to do something, and that something is illegal, and you get caught, all that history does not matter. You are judged on what you did that was wrong.

I mean Joey6 come on, I have very high grades and have worked very hard for them. I have the ability to get into some of the very best graduate schools in the nation. I worked for years to do this and I want to have a good quality of life. Yes, I messed up I admit that. However, I do not believe that I should not be able to work for a top firm and be denied a job that I love because of this?

That is not my decision to make. That is those who are in charge at the "top firm." I know if someone has a problem respecting authority, I don't want them as my employee. Maybe they won't mind....maybe they do. But this is not a issue we can help you here with. Maybe you can cal them and ask HR what their hiring practices are.

I have done plenty of philanthropy and community service before. Im not some screwup or ex-juvenile delinquent. However, that has nothing to do with my question really. Im just concern if this will go on my criminal record or not so if anyone can honestly help me I will really appreciate the time and effort that you take to do this, it means a lot to me. Put yourself in my shoes, obviously you would want to know the same thing...what the coseuqences are going to be and what doors will remain open and which ones will be closed. I can't trust lawyers as I do not know them personally so they will lie or exaggerate just to get hired.

I work with them every day and I don't trust them either! I know how you feel. Maybe you should call and talkd to a few more beofre you decide.

Good luck!

[greg72982]

I understand that the information will be available on that docket website unless the Magistrate clears me of all charges.

If you reread my post right before this post you have you will see that it's on there either way. Anything filed through the magistrate is on there, regardless of the verdict.

So can someone please confirm if this will actually go on my criminal record or not if I plead guilty or if I am found guilty by the judge. The lawyer basically told me that it will (contrary to what is posted above) and told me that he can get the judge to make a deal with me and give me community service instead of putting something on my record.

You don't need an attorney for summary charges, though it is your right. You can ask the officer about this yourself. He may even be willing to withdraw one if you plead guilty to the other.

Im just concern if this will go on my criminal record or not so if anyone can honestly help me I will really appreciate the time and effort that you take to do this, it means a lot to me.

Answered again for you via PM

Answers embedded.

[ChesCopPodz]

Another thing you haven't considered, employers ASK about this stuff before they hire you. You're going to have to tell them about it when they ask anyways, so it really doesn't matter whether or not it's on your record.