Obedience to and effect of traffic laws

[greenlead]

lol @ Oldbillplod.

[mcsap]

Orleander, be careful in your advice about the drivers license. In Pennsylvania, if you are pulled over you are REQUIRED to display your license/registration and insurance card to any police officer. The LEGAL definition of display in our Vehicle Code is to " temporarily surrender" as in to GIVE to the officer, not just hold it up to your drivers window for inspection.

Metrum, an officer need only to establish that he believed that a crime may be occurring to justify a stop. It is called PROBABLE CAUSE, not definite cause. In our line of woek, we have people who illegally swap license plates, illegally swap temporary transit plates and window stickers or make them on their home computers. So if I saw what I suspected to be one of these violations go past, I too would accelerate ( yes SPEED) to catch up to a SUSPECTED violator to check them out. Interesting how you omitted the part about the "plate applied for window sticker" from your earlier posts of course making it look like the officer had NO REASON at all to justify the stop.

I do this all of the time and more often then not, I find what that trooper found.

I am willing to testify to these facts under oath and am willing to let you ( or whomever) hire an attorney to dispute these issues.

[Metrum]

Once again the person in the brief is not me.

I agree with the officers view in the brief,once he saw a suspect looking tag he speed up to investigate further.I have no problem with this.If he pulled over just to check out license registration etc,no big deal to me.

But to make your self an *** by saying first they were ok,but look now he is a little close so lets pull him over.The officer in this already showed that there was no pattern of said violation.

As to the comment about bitching on another web site,Why?I would rather get some imput straight from the horses mouth.I believe the vast majority of law enforcement is doing a great job in dealing with the public.

The funny thing here is I had e-mailed 8 different watch commanders when it would be appropriate to issue a ticket for following too closely.and the two common answers were:
In an accident
When car was less than car length for period of distance and no sign of
backing off.

Sure quote the two second rule=

45mph=66fps so spacing=132feet my Volvo=14.5ft

132/14.5=9.1car lengths
So in local traffic I am 8.5 car lengths behind in good weather,so will you pull me over?
So where is the reasonable justification between 0-9.1 car lengths.

[mcsap]

I need not establish that a crime has ABSOULUTELY been committed, just that I suspect that one has been committed. I ran a tag on a truck recently, The owner ( whom I could not see) came back DUI suspended. I followed him looking for a vio and clocked him at 33 in a 25 zone. It would have been nearly impossible to write him a speeding ticket but nonetheless, IT WAS a violation of the law to exceed the posted speed limit and it gave me the justification to LEGALLY stop an warn him about speeding.

ANd of course he was the owner and had an open container.

$1,000 fine and 90 days for the suspension with $105 for the open container.

I had a 100% legal right to stop him even though I could not have written him a ticket. A violation of the law is a VIOLATION of the law. There is NO law anywhere that says that I MUST issue a ticket or be able to do so. As long as I can articulate the SLIGHTEST violation of a law, I can make the stop.

[Metrum]

I need not establish that a crime has ABSOULUTELY been committed, just that I suspect that one has been committed. I ran a tag on a truck recently, The owner ( whom I could not see) came back DUI suspended. I followed him looking for a vio and clocked him at 33 in a 25 zone. It would have been nearly impossible to write him a speeding ticket but nonetheless, IT WAS a violation of the law to exceed the posted speed limit and it gave me the justification to LEGALLY stop an warn him about speeding.

ANd of course he was the owner and had an open container.

$1,000 fine and 90 days for the suspension with $105 for the open container.

I had a 100% legal right to stop him even though I could not have written him a ticket. A violation of the law is a VIOLATION of the law. There is NO law anywhere that says that I MUST issue a ticket or be able to do so. As long as I can articulate the SLIGHTEST violation of a law, I can make the stop.

But you wrote the ticket for speeding right.

[harbor12]

Based on truth.Officer admitted no crime had been suspected can the following behavior be normal or lawful under Illinois statue below.Also not responding to any call or anything.Sure it did happen to me.

Officer states in report:turned on video when he saw me "following too close".The Video was already running and shows he was a least a quarter mile behind and sped up way in excess of speed limit.

This was not addressed in court other than judge making comment to himself which was overheard as "whats this".I believe my lawyer was a bit inept.But under oath he got the officer to state that he had no reason to believe
anything or suspect anything untill he saw the claimed violation.
I was under the impression that no one is above the law.I would like to know if this lawful practice.If I read the law as written it would seem not lawful.I know to resond to calls or to investigate something.But here he forgot that the tape was already running.





625 ILCS 5/11‑205) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑205)
Sec. 11‑205. Public officers and employees to obey Act‑Exceptions.
(a) The provisions of this Chapter applicable to the drivers of vehicles upon the highways shall apply to the drivers of all vehicles owned or operated by the United States, this State or any county, city, town, district or any other political subdivision of the State, except as provided in this Section and subject to such specific exceptions as set forth in this Chapter with reference to authorized emergency vehicles.
(b) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this Section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.
(c) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
1. Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of
this Chapter;

2. Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign,
but only after slowing down as may be required and necessary for safe operation;

3. Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he
does not endanger life or property;

4. Disregard regulations governing direction of
movement or turning in specified directions.


(d) The exceptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle, other than a police vehicle, shall apply only when the vehicle is making use of either an audible signal when in motion or visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 12‑215 of this Act.
(e) The foregoing provisions do not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty of driving with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor do such provisions protect the driver from the consequences of his reckless disregard for the safety of others.
(f) Unless specifically made applicable, the provisions of this Chapter, except those contained in Section 11‑204 and Articles IV and V of this Chapter, shall not apply to persons, motor vehicles and equipment while actually engaged in work upon a highway but shall apply to such persons and vehicles when traveling to or from such work.
(Source: P.A. 89‑710, eff. 2‑14‑97; 90‑257, eff. 7‑30‑97.)

I followed the thread with much amusment and decided to add my two cents.

First I will answer your question concerning officers breaking the law to enforce the law. Yes we can; the Supreme Court has stated over and over again we may break stautory law to enforce it; ie, we may buy and sell stolen goods in an investigation, we buy and sell drugs during and investigation, we may solicite for prostitution. What we may not do is violate Constitutional law. Now these are two separate and distinct areas. In your situation, yes we may violate stautory law (ie speeding) to enforce it.

Second I will cover your legal brief. I dont see where it applies to what you posted as your situation. The key to the brief is the judges reasoning:

"This case presents a unique situation where there would have been no violation at all except for the actions of the trooper. *** After accelerating to catch up with the defendant, the trooper placed his vehicle to the left rear of the defendant's vehicle and then slowed, effectively trapping the defendant in the right lane as the defendant came up behind a truck. Then, as the defendant and the truck both slowed because of the presence of the officer, the trooper decided that the defendant did not slow quickly enough to be reasonable and prudent and was therefore, following the truck too closely.

*** The court *** finds that based upon the facts of this case the trooper was in error in deciding that the defendant had followed another vehicle more closely than was reasonable and prudent. *** Therefore, there was no legal justification for the stop of the defendant and any evidence obtained as a result of the stop is suppressed."

The judge reasoned the placement of the troopers vehicle is what caused the violation based on the totality of the circumstances. I dont see that in what you posted.

And finally, yes your math is correct. Now do people drive that way? No. Can I stop you for it if I decide to? Absolutely, and I will be able to articulate why based on speed, reaction time, and stopping distance for any given speed. Do I do it often? On occassion; if I did a zero tolerance on it I could stop a vehicle every 10 minutes and issue a an infraction.

Hope that answers your questions.

[rdp]

Argue the 2 second rule all you want. That is the MINIMUM safe distance that you can react and stop in time from the car in front of you.

If you choose to drive less than that, be prepared for more cites and be willing to pay when you rear end the person in front of you.

[Orleander]

Orleander, be careful in your advice about the drivers license. In Pennsylvania, if you are pulled over you are REQUIRED to display your license/registration and insurance card to any police officer. The LEGAL definition of display in our Vehicle Code is to " temporarily surrender" as in to GIVE to the officer, not just hold it up to your drivers window for inspection. .

Sorry Mcsap. LOL I was being sarcastic. I forgot to put him --> :rolleyes: in there. Next time I'll just say "I double dog dare ya to put it up to the window"

[mcsap]

NO, Metrum I did not issue the guy a speeding ticket. I had NO intention of doing so anf under our laws it would have been DIFFICULT for me to justify doing this. I did write him the $1,000 and 90 day ticket and the Open Container $105 ticket.

As you have indicated ( in your other thread) that you would INTENTIONALLY slam on your brakes if a police car was too close behind you in an obvious attempt to get the police car to crash into you, yoo are threatening to commit Aggravated Assault on a LEO. This happens to be a felony in my state. I don't take that lightly. What if your sister or brother happened to be following someone too close and THEY wrecked because the guy in front wanted to "teach them a lesson ?"

I shall no longer respond to your threads as I cannot legally associate with known felons ( or wannabe felons) .

[Metrum]

NO, Metrum I did not issue the guy a speeding ticket. I had NO intention of doing so anf under our laws it would have been DIFFICULT for me to justify doing this. I did write him the $1,000 and 90 day ticket and the Open Container $105 ticket.

As you have indicated ( in your other thread) that you would INTENTIONALLY slam on your brakes if a police car was too close behind you in an obvious attempt to get the police car to crash into you, yoo are threatening to commit Aggravated Assault on a LEO. This happens to be a felony in my state. I don't take that lightly. What if your sister or brother happened to be following someone too close and THEY wrecked because the guy in front wanted to "teach them a lesson ?"

I shall no longer respond to your threads as I cannot legally associate with known felons ( or wannabe felons) .

:p
Oh Bite Me,Time to move on.

[Metrum]

Ya all hurts my feeling,is not my fault ize ignorant.The devil made me do it and ize must excor zice the demons within.Prazit da lord one daize ize be free.

Amen