Probable Cause?

[mowfixer]

I live in Eastern Tennessee and have a question for the forum. Many of us who live here like to walk in the evening, parking in public parking places along the parkway. We do this maybe 4-5 nights per week.

Well I recently got a Police scanner and discovered that the Police go up and down the parkway logging plate numbers of every car parked there as a record in case a crime happens in the area. They also call dispatch and run warrant and individual owners record on each vehicle.

I ask this. How can they legally run your car and personnal information when you have not done anything other than park in a public place? This seems to be a violation of our rights to due process and requirements for probable cause. What is the probable cause when parking in front of your local library at 5 PM?

I have heard the dispatcher return and make comments like you need to watch that vehicle as it has been reported as being parked in several locations this month. Give me a break we walk almost every night and routinely park in different areas for a change of scenery.

What do you all think?

Thanks

[rdp]

If you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

You don't need PC to run any plate....same goes for running the R/O.

They hopefully do this all over town and not just one place. We are looking for criminals, not good people.

[Oldbillplod]

How can they legally run your car and personnal information when you have not done anything other than park in a public place?

Say someone parked a stolen car next to yours, in an attempt to hide it from police because it was 'only parked in a public place', they would never find it for fear of upsetting law abiding people. If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

[Lfpdlieu302]

your license plate has no reasonable expectation of privacy, its public record. an officer can run all the tags he wants withouth probable cause. dont take this the wrong way, but this is what happens when an uninformed person gets to listening to a scanner. they sometimes mis-interrprut what is going on.

[Jynkxxie]

When you put your licence plate and reg. tags on the back of your "viewable" car, are you really demonstrating an expectation of privacy? Driving is a privalege, not a right.

[mcsap]

Washing State Supreme Court, New Jersey State Supreme Court and PA State Superior Court have ALL ruled that motorists DO NOT have a reasonable expectation of privacy as it applies to information that officers can obtain from running plates. The common thread among these decisions is that LEO's can only check LIMITED information. Owners name, address, type of car and validity of the tag. Also the owners drivers license STATUS and if he has any warrants.

If you have legal tags, are properly licensed to drive and don't have any warrants, you will never be bothered.

Since we got car computers I can't begin to tell you how many cars I have stopped with expired or suspended plates, an expired or suspended owner and lastly a big pile of warrants. These are the kind of people that if they run into you, will take off. If they don't have insurance, you will have to pay ALL of your own medical/damage bills.

I believe that armed with this information, you WANT us to go out and get these people off of the road, fine them or lock them up.

When I go out on patrol , I run plates all day long. Constantly. I fund stuff ALL of the time. I almost wonder what it was like before we had computers and we had to call ALL such requests in by radio.

Those that are completely legal and clean will never be stopped. I want the others.

[mcsap]

DC, with your zealous enforcement abilities, if you got a car computer, I think that they would need to do two things.

1. Cut down more trees out west to make paper to print a LOT MORE citations.

2. Build an addition onto the jail with all of the additional "customers" you will no doubt accomodate.

I just LOVE running tags. There are so MANY violations out there just waiting to be found.

[vadep]

Sounds like good police work to me.

I'm fortunate enough to have a computer in the car, and I also run tags all day long. Fun way to pass the time sitting in traffic...

[mowfixer]

I have read all the replies. I agree that the outcome of these checks may be good. I also do not argue the fact that this can be done. But I also see one problem. If I go to town and walk, parking in a legal parking spot with legal plates etc. and every day I am logged into the police computer system (by the way for performing no illegal activity) then if someone breaks into a store in the area then I become a suspect. All this for doing nothing more than walking per my doctors orders.

And for the arrogant reply about the untrained listening to scanners I worked for crime control and public safety for years in another state. After years of listening to police and rescue traffic I finally aquired a scanner to see what was going on in this area.

They did not do these checks nor would they have viewed these as a good use of manpower in otherwise overworked departments. Well you are running around logging plates, someone is breaking into your house or dealing drugs to your kids on the next street. I see this as needless logging of activities of people involved in no illegal activity.

Thanks for most of your replies. This will be my last posting on this matter and happy logging!

[mcsap]

Chill Mow, you have it partially wrong.

I run tags ALL day long when I am out on patrol and BETWEEN calls. I don't run 4 tags a minute. I don't run tags going to a call. I don't run tags instead of handling a call. I don't run as many at night because it is dark and I don't like to light up my interior unless I have to ( even with the little flexi lite I have).

Running tags is logged only as far as the fact that what officer ran it. Simply running a tag does NOT place you or your car into some kind of "criminal suspect registry". If there was a crime, we might just catch them because there car had it's tag run. If we knock on your door because there was a major crime and your car was in the area, PERHAPS you SAW something that may help up solve the crime ?!!!!

Those of us with computers have made NUMEROUS arrests of people with FELONY warrants for DRUGS, BURGLARY, ROBBERY etc. Just the kind of people that you are complaining about. They can hide from you but not as easy from us.

You may have worked in "public safety" but you certainly don't have a grasp of how those of us with computers use them to do our job and BENEFIT society.

[scootsmo]

"Well you are running around logging plates, someone is breaking into your house or dealing drugs to your kids on the next street."

Most of police work is reactive. We get the call after the crime has already happened. It does happen that we do onview a crime and thus do something about it but it is a small percentage of our arrests when you work a beat car. This is a very ignorant statement that you have made and you should be made aware of that. While we are waiting for our next call, god forbid if we actually do a little investigation into public information. Did you forget to renew your tags and got a ticket because of it? Not everybody is "Mr. parked in front of the public library thus I did nothing wrong." We are not Big Brother plotting everywhere you have parked. We look for people that have done illegal things and actually find them while running plates. Troll...Troll...

[mowfixer]

I said I would not post but I have a final comment. You obviously did not read my first post. Yes, here they are keeping records. The dispatcher tells the officer how many times the vehicle has been logged before, making comments to the officer like "we need to keep an eye on that one".

I do understand the activities of police departments but I can not understand why officers are driving through public parking lots logging plates and running warrant checks instead of patrolling my neighborhood. Perhaps catching the individual who broke into my house two times in broad daylight. Do you really feel this a efficient use of resources?

This is my last definately.

thanks all for a lively debate

[mcsap]

YES, ABSOLUTELY it is an efficient use of resources.

On dayshift today, there were 6 of us covering 80 square miles. We handled a number of calls but we canot provide security for every home/business owner. We are also responsible to ensure traffic safety.

If you don't want us to run tags because you have some paranoia about big brother, try a letter to the editor because here, you are on the wrong turf.


BTW, excellent post Scootsmo.

[scootsmo]

You stated that the dispatcher said "been reported." Does that mean that the officer ran the plate a bunch of times that month or maybe it has been ticketed numerous times that month or something else? Okay, the truth comes out. You are just upset because we didn't catch the guy that broke into YOUR house. Everyone stop what they are doing and catch the one burglar that burglarized your home. Buddy, there is more to law enforcement than devoting our tour to just you. Try this one...maybe they are working on your case and the burglar's car has been seen parked in the public parking lot that you are parked in. We have his plate and are just running the cars in the lot to find it. I commend the officer for working when he has down time. He could just be sleeping instead.

[ngcsubutterbar]

In most places cops are answerable to when they run tags and such, to prevent the corruption of 'looking up that cute blondes phone' kinda thing. The requests are 'usually' logged in most places for this reason.