How should I deal with this situation

[LYKOS]

Hello all and thanks for reading my post.

First off I was USAF SP and have done many ride alongs over the years. I appreciate the job you do because I've seen how hard it is.

Here is my dilemma.

I'm a 39 year old Trucker driver in Virginia.

I live in a down town upscale apartment building. My unit is on the second floor.

I often sit on the window and watch the motor and pedestrian traffic below. Many times I will throw my legs over the ledge so that I am sitting with my feet dangling over the edge.

I've lived in this unit for 17 months and since day one have sat in the window as described above.

Tonight I got home from work, opened a beer and sat on my ledge. A friend of mine walked under and I threw my legs over the ledge and was having a conversation with him when a patrol car stopped in the intersection and told me, via his PA, to get out of my window.

Rather than have a pissing match with the officers I threw my legs over the window sill and they pulled out.

I put my legs back over the ledge as they drove off.

Another patrol car pulled up moments later, puts his spotlight on me and told me to get out of the window and and to close my window.

I told the officer I'd be out of the window in a moment but I was going to leave it open.

So he parks the cruiser and gets out. He was a young officer and for the most part was personable and professional.

He said that since the alcohol was outside of the window that I was technically drinking in public.

Fair enough, I put the beer, my first, in the window. Then he tells me I can't sit on the window. I explain that I've been sitting out there off and on for over a year and that no one, before tonight, had ever said anything.

I asked if it is illegal to sit on the ledge. He says he doesn't know. He tries to explain that I might scare people and cause them to call in that I'm about to commit suicide. I asked how many times in the last year people have called in that I am about to commit suicide. Of course he doesn't know of any.

I realize he is not going to go away until I climb in the window so I go ahead and comply with his request.

After he leaves I call city dispatch and ask for a supervisor. The supervisor calls me back and I ask him if sitting on the ledge is illegal after explaining the situation. He says it is not but that I can;t drink on the ledge.

"No problem" I tell him.


Now here is the question.

How do I handle the next officer that comes up telling me to get out of my window?

Should I explain that I've talked to a supervisor and been told it's not illegal?

Not sitting in the window is not an option. If for no other reason than that I am in the right when doing so.



I realize the officers are thinking it's a problem and that they are, in their own mind, doing the right thing. How do I not turn this into a big pissing match?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Chad

[PapaBear]

Hello all and thanks for reading my post.

First off I was USAF SP and have done many ride alongs over the years. I appreciate the job you do because I've seen how hard it is.

Here is my dilemma.

I'm a 39 year old Trucker driver in Virginia.

I live in a down town upscale apartment building. My unit is on the second floor.

I often sit on the window and watch the motor and pedestrian traffic below. Many times I will throw my legs over the ledge so that I am sitting with my feet dangling over the edge.

I've lived in this unit for 17 months and since day one have sat in the window as described above.

Tonight I got home from work, opened a beer and sat on my ledge. A friend of mine walked under and I threw my legs over the ledge and was having a conversation with him when a patrol car stopped in the intersection and told me, via his PA, to get out of my window.

Rather than have a pissing match with the officers I threw my legs over the window sill and they pulled out.

I put my legs back over the ledge as they drove off.

Another patrol car pulled up moments later, puts his spotlight on me and told me to get out of the window and and to close my window.

I told the officer I'd be out of the window in a moment but I was going to leave it open.

So he parks the cruiser and gets out. He was a young officer and for the most part was personable and professional.

He said that since the alcohol was outside of the window that I was technically drinking in public.

Fair enough, I put the beer, my first, in the window. Then he tells me I can't sit on the window. I explain that I've been sitting out there off and on for over a year and that no one, before tonight, had ever said anything.

I asked if it is illegal to sit on the ledge. He says he doesn't know. He tries to explain that I might scare people and cause them to call in that I'm about to commit suicide. I asked how many times in the last year people have called in that I am about to commit suicide. Of course he doesn't know of any.

I realize he is not going to go away until I climb in the window so I go ahead and comply with his request.

After he leaves I call city dispatch and ask for a supervisor. The supervisor calls me back and I ask him if sitting on the ledge is illegal after explaining the situation. He says it is not but that I can;t drink on the ledge.

"No problem" I tell him.


Now here is the question.

How do I handle the next officer that comes up telling me to get out of my window?

Should I explain that I've talked to a supervisor and been told it's not illegal?

Not sitting in the window is not an option. If for no other reason than that I am in the right when doing so.



I realize the officers are thinking it's a problem and that they are, in their own mind, doing the right thing. How do I not turn this into a big pissing match?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Chad

Rather than thinking only about yourself, try to think of the motorists/people below you on the street. They see a person with alcohol hanging his feet out of a window and think there may possibly be a jumper! Simple as that.

Perhaps the officers had received a call of that fact and responded in kind. If you complied they were not worried; if not, then they might have taken further measures.

You are very probably a distraction to traffic. Why don't you just move a chair to the window, sit there, sip your toddy and put your feet on the window sill? Less of an issue and you don't have to have a verbal exchange with the officers who are doing their job - keeping the MAJORITY of the public happy!

[phantasm]

The one jumper up that I had, that I saved, was sitting on a window ledge with her legs out. Granted it was 9 stories up, but still. She had to be grabbed and dragged back into the room by myself an another officer, handcuffed, and brought to the hospital for psych evaluation.

[LYKOS]

Papa bear I appreciate your response.


However you are missing the point of my question.

I have no reason to not sit in my window. It is not illegal.

There is no danger to anyone anymore than when I sit on the edge of my trailer (flatbed truck) and eat my lunch or sit on a wall to watch a ball game.

As for the general public calling in on me lets just deal with that when, and if it comes up. It's been a long time on the ledge for me and no one has called in yet. If that were to happen more than once I would not need to be asked to stay out of the window. I would do so on my own.

But still that's a slippery slope to play on Papa Bear. Someone might think I'm suicidal for sitting on the ledge and someone might think I'm homicidal for having a mean look on my face. Should the police anticipate this and follow me around telling me to smile? LOL

This would be akin to pulling over a person driving a Ferrari because they look like the want to speed?

Listen guys, I'm not trying to be a ****. I just want to sit in my window without hassle.


Perhaps this is best dealt with by dealing with the department on my terms rather than trying to argue with the beat cop?

Would calling station and speaking with the Chief be a better idea?

Actually, now that I think about it that does seem the best course of action. I may have just answered my own question.

[LYKOS]

Perhaps the officers had received a call of that fact and responded in kind. If you complied they were not worried; if not, then they might have taken further measures.

I am curious though. If you were in this situation, and by you I mean any officer on the board, and I did not comply what would be the next course of action?

What can you do if it's not illegal?

[Citicop]

Is there a law that specifically states you may not sit with your legs out the window?

Almost certainly not.

But are there laws that prohibit you from acting in a manner that alarms others or disturbs their peace? Sure there are. Even if you are not trying to do so, if you disturb the peace of other people (for instance, making them think you may jump from your window) then you could be cited or arrested for this conduct.

-Citicop.

[Curt581]

You already know how you should deal with this... however, you don't want to do that. You're going to do whatever you want, never mind what anyone else says.

So be it. Deal with the consequences.

What you really came here to ask was: "Exactly how many times can I tell a police officer 'You can't make me!" without getting my butt arrested?"

The answer to that is... it depends on the officer. Speaking for myself, I'd rather you learn that via trial and error.

Lastly, here's a quote that applies: "If you decide to yank the tiger's tail, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth".

[scott715us]

Citicop put it perfectly. Although it's not written in black and white, it could still possibly cause public panic or alarm if a reasonable person would believe you might be a "jumper." This meets the criteria for charges in many jurisdictions. Since you mentioned you know how hard our "job" is and appreciate what we do, put yourself in our shoes. The officers are not driving by simply to harass you. They're probably thinking the same thing mentioned here and telling you to put your legs back inside so they don't have to be worried about getting dispatched to you later. This would tie up dispatch and other resources. You're probably violating some sort of building or HOA code anyway. It's semi-reckless behavior, so just do everyone a favor and keep your legs inside.

[LYKOS]

Is there a law that specifically states you may not sit with your legs out the window?

Almost certainly not.

But are there laws that prohibit you from acting in a manner that alarms others or disturbs their peace? Sure there are. Even if you are not trying to do so, if you disturb the peace of other people (for instance, making them think you may jump from your window) then you could be cited or arrested for this conduct.

-Citicop.

Citicop I appreciate the answer and the respectful way you phrased it.

This makes sense. Albeit IMHO a little petty I can see where an officer might apply such a law to my situation.

I'm still going to follow up with the Chief to make sure I have an understanding of what I can an can't do in my window (that has a weirdly perverted sound LOL).

I suppose my biggest frustration with all this is that for so long it hasn't been a issue and then, in one night, the first two cops that roll by decide it is, in fact, a problem.

I think what frustrates us as civilians the most is the inconsistency in law enforcement. I don't know that there is a solution to that problem because life and LE is not as linear as we would like.

Thanks for the responses.

Chad

[Legoate]

Let me think.... You are sitting in a public area, you are consuming alcohol.... and you are acting like a smartass when I ask you something as simple as to get back into your window.

Can you think of the possible charge I could apply to that?

I'll let you figure it out.

Give us a break. Stay inside your window, or rent a place with an outside patio and save us all some grief.

[LYKOS]

CURT581 your answer is antagonistic and far from the truth. However I suppose so long as you're wearing a badge you can't be wrong.

But to give you a little credit you are half right.

I wanted to know how to deal with an officer who was telling me not to do something that is not illegal.

CITICOP pointed out that there is in fact a potential legal issue with sitting on the ledge.

I hadn't thought of that aspect and that is why I came here to ask the question.

CURT you reinforce a stereotype that LEO's should be trying to overcome.

It would seem you are more interested in making an arrest than making peace.

[scott715us]

I think what frustrates us as civilians the most is the inconsistency in law enforcement. I don't know that there is a solution to that problem because life and LE is not as linear as we would like.

Hence where the word "discretion" comes in. Some officers could drive by and care less about your legs out the window, so they exercise some discretion and drive by. Other officers see your legs dangling, feel it is dangerous and possibly something they could called to later, so they still exercise a little discretion, but tell you to act accordingly. Then the last choice, you refuse to do it, tell them to pound sand, discretion is out the window (no pun intended) and they arrest you. Regardless of the charges applied (depending on the locale), you have to get booked, hire an attorney, and go to court. For what? so you can dangle your legs out a window? You see where I'm going with this...

[LYKOS]

Scott I see where you are going with that. And it is a legitimate point.
And yes, while it may seem to be a small thing to you it's a big thing to me to be left alone when I'm not bothering anybody. Legs dangling off the ledge today, sitting on the sill with my back to the outside tomorrow, standing in my kitchen drinking a glass of wine with the blinds open the next... See what I'm saying?

[LYKOS]

Ok, Ok Ok I knew this barrage of smart *** answers was gong to come at me.

I appreciate the legitimate answers I got but the rest of you have reinforced my already low opinion of most men wearing the uniform.

I said I respect the "job." The men wearing the uniforms, well they need to earn my respect. And I see that few of you are interested in doing so.

Try and remember that a weapon a badge and all the training you can get doesn't build character. That you have to do on your own.

It seems that some on here have it and some don't.


But then again that's the way it is in any profession isn't it?



And to those who see me as just another ******* civilian looking for a way to screw a cop...

Happy hunting fellas! I'm sure there are plenty of window drinking truckers out there today to give you no need for Viagra tonight.


C'ya

[Big Sexy]

You posted this 50 minutes ago, implying that we'd upset you, you made your obligitory smart remark, so why are you still hanging around?

If you're done, then be done. Don't imply it, yet still hang around to what the replies will be to your "oh so perfect rebuttal".

You didn't get the answer you wanted, try somewhere else, like a suicide hotline or something. Maybe'll they'll give you a definite number, since the term discretionary, which you call inconsistent, does make much sense to you.

Now reach up & pull the panties outta your ***.

Buh bye.