21461 (A) VC - Peculiar situation!!!

[Why Me?]

Hi,

My vehicle was rear ended on 07/01/09 & had called 911 for assistance. CHP showed up & helped me through the process. Person who rear ended me got the ticket. So i went to CHP office (Valencia, CA) on 07/22/09 @ 6:00 PM to collect the accident report (for insurance purpose)

I pulled into CPH office & was looking for a parking spot. As i could not find one, made a U turn & was about to exit the parking lot. Then a CHP officer stopped me with his hand on the gun holder (1st sign of trouble, SOP i guess) and asked me if i was a police officer or belong to CHP. I answered "No".

Then the officer asked me whether i can read & understand "English". My answer was "Yes".

Then the officer asked me for my driving license, registration & insurance which i provided & he can back with 21461(A) VC - FAIL TO OBEY REGULATORY SIGNS (ENTERING CHP RESTRICTED AREA) ticket/Infraction

I explained to the office that i was there to collect accident report & did not know that this was a restricted area. Officer told me that the area had a fence, which was covered by plastic sheet to obstruct public view & the sign outside clearly tells everyone that this is a "Restricted Area" along with a keypad to enter the access code. I did not argue any further & left the place.

I know that disobeying law is no excuse. My question is:

The sign which said that it is an restricted area was on the sliding gate. As i was entering the area, there was a Car exiting the area. When this happens, the whole gate slides out & the sign is just not visible. There is no other fixed sign on the side which says that this is a restricted area. How should one know which is restricted area or not?????

Home depot in my area has the same kind of fence with plastic sheet along the fence. Does it mean it's a restricted area? Local Nursery has the same setup. Does it mean it's restricted?

Only the sign on the gate at CHP said that it's an restricted area. Shouldn’t this be on a fixed structure, so that one does not get into this problem? As they say, Prevention is better than cure

The CHP officer said that i was lucky as there was still day light, if i would have done same during night/after dark, the officers would have pulled the gun. I do agree that this would might have happened, and then an innocent civilian would also be killed?

Isn’t this an oversight on CHP behalf? Do i fight this case in court? I do not like to see any point on my record or like to pay fine.

I am brought up with high morals & values in life. Ignorance of law is no excuse; at the same time it’s the responsibility of the Law to publicize the law which is readable/viewable to the public.

With my case, the CHP officer should have considered more facts before issuing as Infraction?

Any help or advice is highly appreciated

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Hi,
Howdy!
My vehicle was rear ended on 07/01/09 & had called 911 for assistance. CHP showed up & helped me through the process. Person who rear ended me got the ticket. So i went to CHP office (Valencia, CA) on 07/22/09 @ 6:00 PM to collect the accident report (for insurance purpose)

I pulled into CPH office & was looking for a parking spot. As i could not find one, made a U turn & was about to exit the parking lot. Then a CHP officer stopped me with his hand on the gun holder (1st sign of trouble, SOP i guess) Nope, it's called being prepared. As you mention later you were in a Restricted Area. He had not knowledge of your intentions.and asked me if i was a police officer or belong to CHP. I answered "No".

Then the officer asked me whether i can read & understand "English". My answer was "Yes".

Then the officer asked me for my driving license, registration & insurance which i provided & he can back with 21461(A) VC - FAIL TO OBEY REGULATORY SIGNS (ENTERING CHP RESTRICTED AREA) ticket/Infraction

I explained to the officer that i was there to collect accident report & did not know that this was a restricted area. Officer told me that the area had a fence, which was covered by plastic sheet to obstruct public view & the sign outside clearly tells everyone that this is a "Restricted Area" along with a keypad to enter the access code. I did not argue any further & left the place.

I know that disobeying law is no excuse. My question is:

The sign which said that it is an restricted area was on the sliding gate. As i was entering the area, there was a Car exiting the area. When this happens, the whole gate slides out & the sign is just not visible. There is no other fixed sign on the side which says that this is a restricted area. How should one know which is restricted area or not?????
A sliding automatic gate is a good clue.
Home depot in my area has the same kind of fence with plastic sheet along the fence. Does it mean it's a restricted area? Local Nursery has the same setup. Does it mean it's restricted?
I doubt Home Depot has a sliding automatic gate. It's also a public area since they're involved in retail sales. Two distinctly different things here.
Only the sign on the gate at CHP said that it's an restricted area. Shouldn’t this be on a fixed structure, so that one does not get into this problem? As they say, Prevention is better than cure
Nope. It's fine just where it is. It wouldn't make sense to put it on a building if they're specifically addressing the gated area.
The CHP officer said that i was lucky as there was still day light, if i would have done same during night/after dark, the officers would have pulled the gun. I do agree that this would might have happened, and then an innocent civilian would also be killed?
Only if you did something to necessitate being shot. Police often pull their guns and DON'T shoot. You're being dramatic.
Isn’t this an oversight on CHP behalf? Do i fight this case in court? I do not like to see any point on my record or like to pay fine.
It's your right to challenge the citation in court.
I am brought up with high morals & values in life. Ignorance of law is no excuse; at the same time it’s the responsibility of the Law to publicize the law which is readable/viewable to the public.
It's not our responsibility to post everything in full view of the public. They're posted in books all over your state including being viewable online.
With my case, the CHP officer should have considered more facts before issuing as Infraction?
Nope, he's golden.
Any help or advice is highly appreciated
Good luck in court.

[Why Me?]

Thanks for the unbiased replay. I agree on most of your points, one major exception:

A sliding automatic gate is a good clue.

The gate slides to the side & was obstructed by bushes, one can’t make out there was a Gate until it closes or is aware of the location. Couple of locations where I have seen the posting, they are affixed on to the fence and clearly visible even when the gate is open (I can send u a picture if u like )

One final question: To argue my case in court, can I go to the CHP office & take pictures or do I have to take permission before doing so?

Thanks again...

[Sgt. Slaughter]

Thanks for the unbiased replay. I agree on most of your points, one major exception:

A sliding automatic gate is a good clue.

The gate slides to the side & was obstructed by bushes, one can’t make out there was a Gate until it closes or is aware of the location. Couple of locations where I have seen the posting, they are affixed on to the fence and clearly visible even when the gate is open (I can send u a picture if u like )
I'm good. Thanks.
One final question: To argue my case in court, can I go to the CHP office & take pictures or do I have to take permission before doing so?
Is there a public parking lot or sidewalk where you can take a photo from? You don't need permission if you're in a public place.
Thanks again...

[Creeker]

...One final question: To argue my case in court, can I go to the CHP office & take pictures or do I have to take permission before doing so?

...

IMHO, the gate is in the public domain and is also public property. As long as you don't photograph faces, I would expect that it would be permissable, bearing in mind that you are taking your photos from a location that the public has the right to be, ie, sidewalk.

[Roger Dat]

If the gate SLIDES to the point it closes, then obviously it is there to keep certain people out or is that just too much common sense?

[PapaBear]

And people wonder why officers act the way they do! I am certain that the fact there is a fence surrounding the building with limited access was a consoling factor to the RP that his/her vehicle could be parked and out of the public view so the iPod would not get stolen.

Come on, "WhyMe", give us a break! You are not that naive. You are truly fortunate that you were not confronted at gun point. Stop and place yourself in the position of the officer who confronted someone who drove into a restricted area. They don't know why you were there. They don't know you. Ever since 9/11, law enforcement agencies in the country have been on pins and needles worrying about the next attack.

Public parking, although not unlimited and abundant, is clearly visible at the front of almost all CHP offices in the state.

Let me ask you a what if: Your friend has been arrested for warrants and you are going to provide transportation home. You drive down to the county building, see the gate open to the back, are you going to drive into the jail yard? I think not!!!!

If you think you have a chance, plead not guilty and let the judge determine the case. Bear in mind that such an act might embarrass you when you testify to your actions.

[Legoate]

Yet another example why it is better just to book people into jail for trespassing, rather than give them a break and write them a ticket.

[mythoss]

If I saw a sliding gate that happened to be open because someone was exiting I would think to myself , "Self, if that gate was closed would I know how to open it?" If the answer is "no self you would not" then I would have a pretty good idea behind that gate is somewhere I'm not allowed to go and wouldn't just drive on in before it closed. But that's just how I roll.