Lockbox in car?

[utstarcom]

Please suppose for a minute that you have just made a routine traffic stop.
As you approach the car you notice a locked 'cashbox' in the back seat, alone.

My question is this:
How do you get 'probable cause?'
Er, frankly, how could you legally search the box without knowing its contents.

[lawduck]

Please suppose for a minute that you have just made a routine traffic stop.
As you approach the car you notice a locked 'cashbox' in the back seat, alone.

My question is this:
How do you get 'probable cause?'
Er, frankly, how could you legally search the box without knowing its contents.

There are ways around things and I don't want to get into detail about it on a public message board.

If in doubt call a K9. An alert allows bumper to bumper to be searched.

[grumpyirishman]

Please suppose for a minute that you have just made a routine traffic stop.
As you approach the car you notice a locked 'cashbox' in the back seat, alone.

My question is this:
How do you get 'probable cause?'
Er, frankly, how could you legally search the box without knowing its contents.

Why in the world would you want to search someone's locked cashbox? You have no indications or any reasonable suspicion of criminal activity!!:p

PS: There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop
!!!

[PJMurphy]

The fourth amendment USC requires a warrant (issued by the court) unless one of the recognized exceptions to the warrant requirement can be applied. There are two possibilities here provided we have a key to the box: The Mobile conveyance doctrine allows an officer to search the entire vehicle and any closed containers therein if, there is probable cause to believe the vehicle contains evidence of a crime (can you smell the cannabis?). No arrest required on this one and the box can be forced open if necessary. Next is the Inventory Search following the impoundment of the vehicle usually after the arrest of the driver. This is a complete search, including closed containers that can be opened without breakage, provided the agency requires an inventory of impounded vehicles. We used to employ a third exception, Search incident to Arrest, but we have to change our tactics on that one in light of recent case law.

Set all this aside for a moment. If I really wanted to get into that locked cash box I would start by just asking the guy to open it for me. It's amazing how successful this can be.

Rule of thumb: Armed with Reasonable Suspicion of a crime, you almost never need a warrant to search a vehicle that is operable an in a public location.

Too many cops don't understand this and fail to take advantage of 5 different exceptions to the warrant requirement that apply to vehicles. Show me a bad guy who doesn't drive (legally or illegally) and I'll show you a real cop who actually eats donuts.

[Samuel]

... don't want to get into detail about it on a public message board.

ditto

[utstarcom]

Why in the world would you want to search someone's locked cashbox? You have no indications or any reasonable suspicion of criminal activity!!:p

PS: There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop
!!!

Lol. Well you would hope cash would be in it, but we don't know.

There are ways around things and I don't want to get into detail about it on a public message board.

If in doubt call a K9. An alert allows bumper to bumper to be searched.

What do you mean, exactly, "an alert allows...to be searched?"

If the driver were to refuse to open the box (let's assume it's more like a mini-safe than a cash box - unbreakable), and informed the officer he would gladly comply if given a warrant, would they be within their rights to do so?
What actions would follow?

The fourth amendment USC requires a warrant (issued by the court) unless one of the recognized exceptions to the warrant requirement can be applied. There are two possibilities here provided we have a key to the box: The Mobile conveyance doctrine allows an officer to search the entire vehicle and any closed containers therein if, there is probable cause to believe the vehicle contains evidence of a crime (can you smell the cannabis?). No arrest required on this one and the box can be forced open if necessary. So, if I understand correctly, I could 'lose' the key, you would break it open to find some cash, and we'd both be on our merry way? Next is the Inventory Search following the impoundment of the vehicle usually after the arrest of the driver. This is a complete search, including closed containers that can be opened without breakage, provided the agency requires an inventory of impounded vehicles. We used to employ a third exception, Search incident to Arrest, but we have to change our tactics on that one in light of recent case law. Please enlighten us...

Set all this aside for a moment. If I really wanted to get into that locked cash box I would start by just asking the guy to open it for me. It's amazing how successful this can be. Fair enough. But if I have to ask this question, I'm probably not going to say yes.

Rule of thumb: Armed with Reasonable Suspicion of a crime, you almost never need a warrant to search a vehicle that is operable an in a public location.

Too many cops don't understand this and fail to take advantage of 5 different exceptions to the warrant requirement that apply to vehicles. Show me a bad guy who doesn't drive (legally or illegally) and I'll show you a real cop who actually eats donuts.

ditto

There are ways around things and I don't want to get into detail about it on a public message board.

.....you know how to PM...

[Roger Dat]

What happend to all the normal people that used to post on this forum.

[Samuel]

What happend to all the normal people that used to post on this forum.

I'm starting to think this is the new "normal"... :rolleyes:

[Samuel]

.....you know how to PM...

Yep, but I don't feel like it...

[Creeker]

Yep, but I don't feel like it...

Awww... c'mon... you owe her an answer because she pays your salary!!:rolleyes:

;)

[Legoate]

Lol. Well you would hope cash would be in it, but we don't know.

This is a obviously a response from someone who had never worked as an officer. Similar to this: I worked for about 3 years on the streets before I ever found an Altoids container that actually contained Altoids. I started believing that the company actually sent them to stores for sale with illegal drugs in them. To this day I'm still suprised if I find a breath mint container of any type that actually contains breath mints.

[Samuel]

Awww... c'mon... you owe her an answer because she pays your salary!!:rolleyes:

;)

It's a She?

If she's paying my salary, I guess I can PM her with my complaints about being underpaid and overworked?


:D

[Creeker]

.... To this day I'm still suprised if I find a breath mint container of any type that actually contains breath mints.

Must be a regional thing.

In my neck of the woods... different time... it was throat lozenge containers and film canisters, but there were a few rather ornate boxes, too. Film cans usually had a lot of seeds, too.

[PJMurphy]

So, if I understand correctly, I could 'lose' the key, you would break it open to find some cash, and we'd both be on our merry way?
Nope, we are all millionaires (thanks to our generous pensions) so we don't need the cash. We'll take your dope though, lock you up and post your arrest picture on the website.

Next is the Inventory Search following the impoundment of the vehicle usually after the arrest of the driver. This is a complete search, including closed containers that can be opened without breakage, provided the agency requires an inventory of impounded vehicles. We used to employ a third exception, Search incident to Arrest, but we have to change our tactics on that one in light of recent case law. Please enlighten us... We now have to hand-cuff you to the car door or rear-view mirror before we search incident to arrest. You used to be able to watch from the safety of the back seat of the squad.

Set all this aside for a moment. If I really wanted to get into that locked cash box I would start by just asking the guy to open it for me. It's amazing how successful this can be. Fair enough. But if I have to ask this question, I'm probably not going to say yes. I don't know...most of us are pretty charming.

[utstarcom]

It's a She?

If she's paying my salary, I guess I can PM her with my complaints about being underpaid and overworked?
:D

Yes, and they will be overlooked, just as you did my question =/