Concealed Carry

[PJMurphy]

Illinois is one of two states that do not permit anyone to carry a concealed weapon (Wisconsin is the other). This means that only sworn officers are permitted by state law to carry, all others are subject to arrest for UUW. The Sheriff's Association supports concealed carry legislation, The Chief's association is Neutral (mainly because of the influence of big city chiefs who won't go against their liberal political masters). My position, as a small town police chief, is that any law abiding (never been arrested), competent (demonstrated good judgment) person who wishes to take on this responsibility and undergo the same essential training and qualification as a PO should be permitted to carry a concealed firearm. I am looking for the "best" argument in opposition to my position! (The standard liberal arguments do not stand up.)

Secondly, would any POs or those who wish to be POs care to weigh in on the issue? (Suggestion: Don't give me an "officer safety" argument as you will look silly.)

[Johninaustin]

Don't really care. I just wish they would stop losing their guns in public restrooms.

[Ispbear]

No problem with concealed carry. The only thing I would suggest would be common sense restrictions on the concealed carry. Such as an age requirement (21), no alcohol or drugs in system, nothing more than a simple misdemeanor on record, etc...
Violation of said restrictions would be punishable and also equate to revocation of concealed carry.

[retdetsgt]

In Oregon, the requirements are be 21, no felonies nor any misdemeanors involving violence of any kind and no time spent in a mental hospital. They have to attend a safety class also.

CCW is really a wash here. For every case I saw involving a holder doing something good with their weapon, there was at least one goofball with one that did something to get himself arrested.

When it was made easier to obtain in Oregon, there was a flood of people applying. I think very few actually carry on their person, most want to carry a gun in their car.

[Signal9]

I agree that law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry and that they have the right to. The problem I run into is that I run into criminals with firearms that are allowed to have them because they haven't been convicted of a felony. Case in point. I made a traffic stop. Walked up to the car and the suspect has a pistol sitting by his leg. He has been charged with over 5 felonies in the past and has numerous gun/drug convictions in the past but since he isn't a felon he can still possess that firearm. That's what I don't agree with.

[Samuel]

Illinois is one of two states that do not permit anyone to carry a concealed weapon (Wisconsin is the other). This means that only sworn officers are permitted by state law to carry, all others are subject to arrest for UUW. The Sheriff's Association supports concealed carry legislation, The Chief's association is Neutral (mainly because of the influence of big city chiefs who won't go against their liberal political masters). My position, as a small town police chief, is that any law abiding (never been arrested), competent (demonstrated good judgment) person who wishes to take on this responsibility and undergo the same essential training and qualification as a PO should be permitted to carry a concealed firearm. I am looking for the "best" argument in opposition to my position! (The standard liberal arguments do not stand up.)

Secondly, would any POs or those who wish to be POs care to weigh in on the issue? (Suggestion: Don't give me an "officer safety" argument as you will look silly.)

FWIW, I don't necessarily disagree with you (although I believe there should be much more stringent requirements) but looking at the underlined above, with due respect for your rank/position, I don't think you're mentally open for a discussion... and my "more stringent requirements" ARE related to officer safety issues...

[Samuel]

I agree that law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry and that they have the right to. The problem I run into is that I run into criminals with firearms that are allowed to have them because they haven't been convicted of a felony. Case in point. I made a traffic stop. Walked up to the car and the suspect has a pistol sitting by his leg. He has been charged with over 5 felonies in the past and has numerous gun/drug convictions in the past but since he isn't a felon he can still possess that firearm. That's what I don't agree with.

Ditto. Around here, we've got WAY too many POS'es who haven't been convicted or caught or have pled down; too many friends/associates/affiliates of POS'es; wannabe POS'es; etc. Requiring a full-on LE type background investigation (paid for by the applicant) would go a long way in alleviating my concerns for this particular aspect of CCW...

[webjeep]

Ditto. Around here, we've got WAY too many POS'es who haven't been convicted or caught or have pled down; too many friends/associates/affiliates of POS'es; wannabe POS'es; etc. Requiring a full-on LE type background investigation (paid for by the applicant) would go a long way in alleviating my concerns for this particular aspect of CCW...

Under federal law you cannot possess a firearm if you are a known drug user. If you have a knucklehead who has been convicted of, is under indictment, or has plead to even a misdemeanor possession they can be charged under 18 USC § 922(g) & (n). If you have an ATF agent/office and or AUSA who are willing to help you out. Plus if they purchased the gun after a conviction on a drug charge then they also lied on their forms if bought from a dealer, which constitutes perjury in most states.

Side note, in VA you can be denied for alcohol related incidents, violence, drugs, or if the local LE agency doing your background can present credible evidence to the issuing judge that it would not be a good idea(ie you hang out with known drug dealers.)

Statistically violent crime is lower in areas with higher concentrations of people who LEGALLY carry. Check NRA for some info too.

[txinvestigator1]

Under federal law you cannot possess a firearm if you are a known drug user. If you have a knucklehead who has been convicted of, is under indictment, or has plead to even a misdemeanor possession they can be charged under 18 USC § 922(g) & (n). If you have an ATF agent/office and or AUSA who are willing to help you out.

However, non federal LEOs cannot charge a preson under federal laws.

[retdetsgt]

FWIW, I don't necessarily disagree with you (although I believe there should be much more stringent requirements) but looking at the underlined above, with due respect for your rank/position, I don't think you're mentally open for a discussion... and my "more stringent requirements" ARE related to officer safety issues...

On the flip side though, are crooks going to bother to get a license anyway? That's been my beef with gun control laws all along. The POS's that are a threat to you aren't going to care if they have a permit or not, are they?

Anybody that wants to carry a gun bad enough is going to carry a gun. A stringent CCW permit requirement is about as helpful as a restraining order when your ex is coming in your house with a baseball bat.

As hard as I try, I can't visualize some POS that would be willing to kill a cop under any circumstances is going to care a bit about whether or not he's been refused a CCW permit.

[Samuel]

On the flip side though, are crooks going to bother to get a license anyway? That's been my beef with gun control laws all along. The POS's that are a threat to you aren't going to care if they have a permit or not, are they?

Anybody that wants to carry a gun bad enough is going to carry a gun. A stringent CCW permit requirement is about as helpful as a restraining order when your ex is coming in your house with a baseball bat.

As hard as I try, I can't visualize some POS that would be willing to kill a cop under any circumstances is going to care a bit about whether or not he's been refused a CCW permit.

I would agree the vast majority probably Won't, however, there will be that percentage of borderline POS's or friends/family of POS's who Will because they meet the minimum . In the same vein as gang members putting associates through law school to be the gang lawyer; gang members/associates going into the military to get training and access to equipment; gang members/criminals specifically using juveniles or associates with clean records to do the dirty work; more organized gang members/criminals or more especially their friends/associates actively seeking out positions of power/authority in the community (e.g. cops, lawyers, politicians, business men, etc); criminals using mules (often with little criminal history until they get caught) to transport contraband; etc...

I would discuss more but this is an open area of the forums...